The Scarlet Crusade

Lore Story Forum
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This kind of feels like their MO. Particularly post Cata where there’s whole questlines that are nothing but movie references. To a frankly insufferable degree.

Like having archeology trainers called Harrison Jones and Beloc dressed like the Indiana Jones characters would be cute as an Easter Egg. But whole questlines is where stuff gets grating fast.

As for Pandaria I’ve only completed the first zone Hordeside and as I’m not particularly well versed in Chinese culture about all I can say was “an attempt was made”.

The Pandarians are better fleshed out than some of even the OG playable races and have a believable society. I liked for example how the monasteries were impressive but were also visibly suffering from the compliancy and favoritism of masters. I got a distinct sense that while these places are far from helpless, they’re in for a rude awakening if a genuine threat comes knocking on the door. Which is all but guaranteed to happen seeing as you’re a RPG adventurer.

Though I can easily see how it’d get annoying if you’re actually familar with the culture. Particularly as it seems like everything revolves around martial arts. Which makes some sense in context seeing how the place is cursed by the Old Gods, so completely losing your cool can result in turning into a blob monster and the monks have the whole mental, spiritual and physical discipline thing going. Though I did start to wonder where the hell the rest of playable Pandaren classes even came from. I guess the Loremasters are a bit magey what with the magic libraries. But something like say a Fury Warrior seems a bit at odds with the vibes.

I got the distinct sense that this would be a bit like if there was an American themed region and everything was in orbit around cowboys. Though now that I say that - ya know I’ve heard worse ideas. Maybe they could be a new class. Instead of rage or focus you’ve a Yeehaw bar.

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123

Lol, thanks for the mental image.

I did consider giving an analogy, but I stopped short because of exactly what you described: that does sound kind of fun. But you have to place that in the context that, from my understanding of your posts about snow, you’re an American living in America.

It’s the same reason that East Asians living in actual East Asia tended to be more bored than insulted by the comparison: you have a wealth of other portrayals to give you that depth. Going wacky with one might be catchy, or it might just be an eyeroll and move on.

But when wacky and a little bit uncanny valley are the majority of your experiences with pop culture adapting an important part of who you are, one more on the pile front and center is… mm. Not great.

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124

I hear you. I am American but a good chunk of my family is Austrian. And don’t get me wrong it’s not like German is framed as a villainous tongue without good reason. But it’s hard not to laugh when actors are pronouncing the most banal sentences with the same cadence usually reserved for “Avada Kedavra”.

I actually write this toon with a German (Alteraci) accent as I figured correctly that between that and the undead thing people would assume he’s an evil character. Which has led to pretty entertaining interactions. A particular favorite was when Tauren Braves tracked him to his secluded mountain cave labratory where he was just casually researching regional diseases for treatment methods.

“Vell ya zere’s live infectious bacteria samples. Zat’s vhy I put it far away from a population center. Und you decided it’s a secret. Zis is all plainly avalible information I vould’ve been happy to share had you simply asked”.

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125

Just finished replaying MoP and yeah, it’s hands down the best expansion that checked every single box.

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126

While you’re spot on about Mists did Legion do that too? I’m not sure if the Nightborne count as an entirely new race.

Side note: on the subject of this thread, that expansion - the one called Legion - the is where the last of the Scarlet Crusade was wiped out by the Death Knights of the Ebon Blade (for those who hate them, you’re welcome :upside_down_face:). The Scarlet Onslaught and Scarlet Brotherhood are still around.

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127

Is there any word on who has taken up residence in scholomance since mists of pandaria?
You keep bringing up the forsaken conflict in lordaeron, and while I do agree it is integral to the development of the continent, I would think that with the timely addition of void elves to the alliance, a sect of alliance based humans could wage their own incursion against the blood elves, supported by their new allies, along with the worgen as you’ve also mentioned.

I think with the convergence of the nightborne and sindorei cultures, the northernmost human civilizations could see many different political views on how to progress, serving a great opportunity for more radical members of the alliance to break off, possibly pledging allegiance to older more experienced souls, unbeknownst to them what the scarlet crusade truly represented in its inception.

But nah, the nightborne and sindorei leaders marrying spells NOTHING BAD FOR THE ALLIANCE’s presence in the north.

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Yes, in Legion we are sent there to retrieve The Book of Medivh and we find out Kel’thuzad was still leading a group of Cult of the Damned there. It was foreshadowing that Kel’thuzad would return in Shadowlands. But we wiped them all out so I think it’s now empty.

There is a member of the Scarlet Renegades in Stormwind as an embassador to the Alliance, he’s in the Church of the Holy Light. He says he’s hoping to recruit new people into the Renegades, he wants to return the Crusade to it’s humble origins and possibly turn it good. On the other hand there is a Scarlet Crusade vendor in the Darkmoon faire who is raising funds to restore the Crusade back to it’s undead hating haydays. She says the Crusade will not stop until all undead are purged from Azeroth. Two recruiters and a few rambling pamphlets of a mad Joseph. Otherwise Thadeus is right, the Crusade at this moment is defeated and defunct.

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129

What’s of note is it seems like the Scarlets took over Coldhearth Manor in Tirisfal. It’s crawling with Tirisfal farmers and has Scarlets on the road when it’d historically been overrun by mindless zombies.

Trouble is reclaimed Tirisfal is so wonky I’ve no idea if this is deliberate or an oversight. While flying around to get a better look I’d shift into pre BFA Cata Tirisfsal when I flew to the eastern side of the map. So I have no idea if that’s foreshadowing or a mistake. Because they moved a lot of Tirisfal NPCs around and somebody easily could’ve just sent those guys to the wrong farm. Their usually at the Salliden Farmstead farther west near Deathknell and the Calston Estate.

Kel’Thuzad isn’t referenced and the Shadow Council strongarm the Book of Medivh from the CotD without incident. They’re presumably led by whoever replaced Darkmaster Gandling as Necro-Superintendant.

"Jergosh the Invoker yells: Finally! The Book of Medivh is ours! Would have saved ourselves time if you’d just let me kill those death-lovers!

Braelyn Firehand yells: Not worth the effort, dear! Let them rot in their crypt. The fires of the Legion will come for them soon enough.

Jergosh the Invoker yells: Hmmmph! Wait… something is wrong!"

The Cult of the Damned is decidedly still active. We see them in the SL prepatch helping the newly unleashed Scourge raise hell. I figure with the Lich King’s big stash of undead in Northrend up for the taking quite a few enterprising necromancers might’ve absconded with swaths of mindless undead to take over enclaves across Azeroths.

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Kel’thuzad was foreshadowed to return. You don’t have to believe me. It’s silly at this point the lengths you are going to. Kel’thuzad is the master of the Cult of the Damned, people at the time this quest to recover the book went live all speculated of the return of Kel’thuzad. We never killed him in his phylactery in WoLK, as he had it well hidden. He did have it hidden well, in the Shadowlands, in Torghast. There was no one else it was always him in charge.

Just because you don’t recognize foreshadowing, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It’s a narrative tool blizzard writers use frequently. The pattern can be followed. They foreshadow plots two expansions in advance. For example, in the Netherwing Ledge quests. Lady Sinestra shows up to tell us Deathwing isn’t dead. Two expansions later, boom, Cataclysm. The patterns are not even complex, they are spoon fed to us players.

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131

Maybe those guys in Coldhearth Manner were the ones who ended up founding the Scarlet Brotherhood. Like how the Scarlet Onslaught was founded by members of the Scarlet Crusade going rogue (or more rogue).

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There’s no scarlets at Cold Hearth Manor though. Just a bunch of farmers. It’s a phasing issue for Ben is all

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I genuinely can’t tell if you’re trolling.

Kel’Thuzad wasn’t mentioned or refernced or alluded to at all in the Scepter of Sargeras questline. If simply involving the Cult of the Damned is foreshadowing Kel’thuzad then he was foreshadowed way back in Cata when we attack the CotD. Which is being led by Darkmaster Gandling. Because obviously KT had subordinates.

Also if Legion was foreshadowing SL it did a crap job of it. As you’re constantly sending Death Knights into the Shadowlands in the DK Order Hall mission tables. Didn’t come off as a big deal to go there and back if you know how to use death magic.

It’s certainly not just me as the WoWpedia pages also mentions them. The questions is was that deliberate or an accident. As Tirisfal is full of relocated characters.

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After the Forsaken reclaimed Brill, Tirisfal Farmers took control of the manor, and Scarlet Warriors patroled the road in front of it.

Which lines up with what’s there, farmers at the Manor and a few crusader warriors patrolling the road.

It’s certainly not controlled by the Crusade. So no idea where you’re getting that from outside of making it up

135

Um.

Well for starters because;

It ain’t overrun by zombies and the Forsaken don’t hold it. So - I’m confused what you’re arguing.

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It’s not scarlet owned. That’s all.

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He doesn’t have to be outwardly referenced at all to be foreshadowed. The resurgence of the Cult of the Damned operating out to Scholomance is enough. The fact that they went to great lengths to steal the Book of Medivh, an artifact Kel’thuzad wanted, an artifact the Lich King wanted… That is enough to foreshadow the return of Kel’thuzad.

I’ve noticed something about you, just by reading your posts. You absorb lore on a very surface level, you see things as very black and white. You lack any imagination, you don’t see the bigger picture, you hyperfocus on small insignificant details, ignore anything that doesn’t fit into your tiny preception of reality. I’m not trying to make ad hominem, just pointing out how frustrating it is having a conversation about lore with you. It’s like talking someone to an art show, who only looks at the brochure in their hands, the painting is right there in front of you eyes, just look up!

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Oh cool. Then don’t consider it an insult when I say you’ve the media literacy of an inbred Yorkshire Terrier.

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139

Oh good, so the gloves are off. You wouldn’t see a plot coming if it sat on your face. You need bifocals too see the plot of Battle for Azeroth, in hindsight.

You have a whole forum telling you the Scarlet Crusade is wiped out and you would still continue to be like, “Okay, so guys, what if they befriended the Forsaken, wouldn’t that be so cool omg, Calia is the best.”

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See what I mean about the literacy thing?

I make a post about how the Forsaken and Worgen should fight the Scarlets. And you continue to insist what I’m actually suggesting is the Scarlets should join the Alliance or befriend the Forsaken.

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There’s no Scarlets there but that’s where the pamplets were found, good catch.

Whatever Scarlets that remained after the Death Knight purge of the SM in Legion, are reported to have one existing stronghold left in Tirisfal, the stronghold mentioned in the Scarlet Brotherhood Pamphlets themselves, currently it’s just a place of speculation but it does exist, it is probably somewhere close to there, a secret basement perhaps?

I’m going to continue with my speculation that Joseph wrote those pamplet’s and here’s another layer to consider. Joseph the Awakend refers to sending letters to Captain Nials, those letters have gone unanswered, but she is part of the Legaue of Arathor. The pamphlet’s claim the heir of Lorderon was sired by an Arathi Nobleman, Nials helped reclaim Stromgard in BfA. This is out on a lmb speculation here but, Captian Nials could be Calia’s long lost daughter.

The thing is there are two plots happening here, one that is real, one that is fake. The Scarlet Brotherhood are clearly following a fake heir, but someone had to have given the writer of those pamphlets, real information that they have twisted to their own ends. Calia said she had a girl, the Scarlet Brotherhood claim she had a boy. She was married to a guard, or she was married to a nobleman. The only people who would have known that would Calia herself and her husband, the royal family OR the priest that officiated her wedding, the priest who helped her give birth.

There’s a long history of the Church of the Holy Light being infested by Old God forces, Archbishop Benedictus for example, was the Archbishop of Lordaeron. He would have likely been the one to oversee this marriage and this birth, of Calia’s child. As the Twilight Father, he would also have a reason to lie to his followers about this event. Twist the scenario - try and claim it was Neltharion who sired an legitimate heir. in the Scaarlet Brotherhood pamplets, and in this great lie about the Heir or Lordaeron we, see a convergence between the Scarlet Crusade and the Twilight’s Hammer. This is a Black dragonflight plot.

Indulge me a moment, if Jospeh is a black dragon, that explains his slow decline into insanity… just like his brothers. I think he will try to claim that he is the Heir of Lordaeron, just like he claimed to be the rightful Scarlet Champion, because the whispers told him to kill his comrades.

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