The Scarlet Crusade killed Gilneans in Before the Srorm? Strange, I’ve read that book at least 4 times, I don’t remember that scene. Do you have a page reference so I can jog my memory?
Then you ought to know that between meeting Alonsous Faol and seeing the Forsaken’s behavior at The Gathering Genn starts to see the Forsaken as people for the first time.
He’d only ever met the Forsaken on the battlefield. At The Gathering he see’s an undead woman get berated by her ex husband and rather than reacting violently she just stands there looking dejected and heartbroken.
As for the Scarlets they say their hope is the Worgen kill all the Forsaken so they can then in turn kill all the Worgen. The Worgen are clearly on their ish list as well.
That’s not exactly what happens. Genn is admonished by an old friend, Alonsus, whom Genn thought previously was a monster. Genn came to the conclusion that his old friend Alonsus was still the same despite being dead. Alonsus is a friend, Alonsus is not a Forsaken.
That was not a blanket statement that he now accepts all Forsaken.
I’m just having a hard time, understanding how you’ve come to the conclusion you have come to. By reading that line in Before the Storm, on how he sees his friend as the person he was, and jumping to the conclusion that he’s now a friend to the Forsaken.
This is Genn Greymane you are talking about. Like he’s suddenly had a change of heart in regards to the faction he hates. Call me a skeptic.
At the ending of the book when they’re burying the Forsaken Sylvanas slaughtered Anduin fully expects Genn to admonish him because he kept telling Anduin this was a terrible idea.
But he doesn’t. He concedes Anduin was right about the Forsaken. He admits that peace with them is possible. Before he saw them as nothing but monsters with a hatred for life and a lust for it’s destruction. He now understands they are basically just people.
Combine that with 5 years of peace and more normalized relations plus a mutual threat and yeah I think they’d work together.
Begrudgingly perhaps but as I said it would be a start to a less adversial relationship. Which is the direction the story ought to go. Because the Forsaken don’t hate the Worgen. They are the main antagonist of Silverpine but that is a war the Forsaken are fighting against their will. They are gang pressed into it by Garrosh.
After that the Bloodfang have a bit part in Hillsbrad. Then the Worgen never come up again until Stormheim, a decade later. It’s the most one sided rivalry in the game.
When I say the Worgen ought to be the main Alliance faction on this side of Thoradin’s Wall. The Worgen look cool in spooky haunted forests and their gothic Victorian architecture goes well with the Spooksylvania status of the northern EK.
I’d give the Worgen Gilneas as well as Southshore and why not let them have like Darrowshire and a new village in the WPL.
The Worgen are in dire need of their own zones and fresh content. There’s spooky forests a plenty in the northern EKs. And the Scarlets serve as excellent canon fodder for both them and the Forsaken to kill.
Because if they’re going to revisit those zones they’re going to have to give us stuff to do, IE; things to kill. And if the Forsaken and Worgen are no longer fighting eachother then we need something else to fight. And the Scarlets make a perfect mutual enemy for both races.
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Genn is wrong though. The Forsaken have been monsters. They are a villian faction, who have commited countless acts of terrorism.
Good thing I never said that then.
The first post starts off with a CS Lewis quote about the evils of Theocracy. I specifically picked CS Lewis because he was an extremely devout Christian who’s “Lion, The Witch & The Wardrobe” series were explicit New Testament biblical allegories.
How in the hell anyone’s concluded I’m admonishing the concept of religion or suggesting the Scarlets are a heroic faction is beyond my comprehension.
It’s not just my opinion, that’s been the whole Forsaken persona since forever. They are an enemy to the living.
They get along fine with the Argent Dawn. So much so Argent recruiters are allowed in Tirisfal. Andorhal and Hearthglen are down the road neighbors who’ve coexisted without incident. So much so the Deathguard actually send you to the Argents to see if they need help with anything. Likewise former Forsaken Apothecaries like Judkins are outright working for the Argents.
Kinda seems like they get along just fine with the living when they’re not actively trying to kill them.
So humans are just supposed to forgive the undead who tried to kill them? And vice versa?
I don’t care what the humans do. This isn’t about them. Well, it’s about killing them, but specifically the bad ones.
This is about the Worgen and Forsaken. Who I do think could coexist fairly easily. The Forsaken don’t want Gilneas and the Worgen don’t want Lordaeron. So there’s nothing much to beef about.
At most I’d have maybe the Bloodfang and Defilers still squabbling if we want to justify a BG or something. But it’d be confined to one specific area and two specific groups not representative of the broader geopolitical situation.
Because the faction conflict worked best when it was a Cold War with flashpoints. Making it a main narrative thrust is stupid as the nature of the game requires a return to the status quo. So neither side can win or lose in any meaningful way.
The Scarlet Crusade straight up considers the Worgen just as bad as the Undead, read Before The Storm.
This ironically does give the people of Gilneas and Forsaken a common enemy. This is further solidified btw in the Scarlet Brotherhood’s propaganda of Genn being a complete traitor etc.
A persona indicative of old leadership that no longer exists unless you’re under the impression that Calia Menethil is gonna start going ‘The living need to be purged >:(’
9.2.5. makes it pretty clear The Forsaken under new leadership isn’t gonna be the same thing the first step of that literally being to give Gilneas back without any problems to the Gilneans and also having the Kaldorei Dark Rangers accepted into the Alliance.
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Plus it was kinda news to everyone the Forsaken are occupying Gilneas. Because the status of that zone changes every single time it’s mentioned.
In Exploring Azeroth the Bloodfang are said to have seized SFK and Fenris Isle. Presumably they did this by working out’ve at least part of Gilneas. But then in the Sylvanas novel it’s said Gilneas got the crap Blighted out’ve it so it’s presumably not unlike Tirisfal was pre Plague Eater. But then at the end of that questline nevermind actually the Forsaken occupy it now.
Gilneas is like one of those subatomic particles that seems to change it’s mass whenever it’s observed. It’s status is basically a field of theoretical quantum physics.
And I say give the Worgen Gilneas back and throw up some Gilnean styled towns around Hillsbrad, Silverpine and the Plaguelands.
Seriously the Worgen just don’t have a zone of their own. At least with the Forsaken we still had the Pools of Vision and Cleft of Shadows to lurk in. The Worgen don’t get a home or even an enclave. They look really, really cool in dark woods but the Alliance really only has Duskwood and Drustvar for that.
But as luck would have it most of the nothern EK is filled with dark, haunted forests. And as a lifelong Forsaken fan I’m fine with sharing it with the Worgen.
They’re also creatures of the night with spooky glowing eyes and they have suitably foreboding architecture. They don’t screw up the aesthetic. Plus the Forsaken and Worgen both celebrate Halloween as a national holiday. So you could do something fun there with that. All they need is a mutual enemy to kill. And the Scarlets are absolutely perfect for that role.
The Scarlet Crusade never massacred Gilnean worgen. The worgen were behind the Greymane Wall until the Cataclysm, by then the Scarlet Crusade were mostly wiped out.
The Forsaken massacred the Gilneans. Or are you getting those two mixed up?
I am once again asking you to read Before The Storm.
The Scarlets are offhandedly mentioned in it as having attacked Worgen on sight. (They were also around in Cata albeit their presence was hardly what it was pre-cata.)
Okay but lets take a step back here. Killing Bloodfang Pack on sight, vs massace are two seperate things with seperate connotations.
I never said the Scarlets ‘massacred’ the Worgen I mentioned they consider them just as bad as the Undead which is true.
And they killed ‘any’ Worgen in the case in Before the Storm it was not some Feral that ended up dead. This is also keeping in mind The Brotherhood’s propaganda literally says they will eradicate the Worgen after they use Genn to eliminate the Forsaken which is just straight up planned genocide.
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And mith asked when have the scarlets massacred the worgen, which you flipped out and said read BTS because the scarlets consider them just as bad as the scarlets
I am well aware of these pamphlets. I was the first one to bring them up, while others dismissed these pamphlets as irrelevant.
It’s not the Scarlet Crusade who want to wipe out the worgen, it’s the Scarlet Brotherhood. The Scarlet Crusade only exist as an offshoot organization of the priest Conclave, called the Scarlet Pilgrims. The Crusade has otherwise been disbanded, defeated or considered defunct. I am well up to date on my lore.
No they don’t.
You rescue like ten apostates in Dragonblight who come to the Conclave now calling themselves Crimson Pilgrims. You leave New Hearthglen very much intact and it’s certainly not short staffed on still loyal Scarlets.
And far as I can tell there is no ideological dispute between any of the Scarlet subsections. Seeing as in the Conclave questline they’re referred to as Scarlets as an umbrella term I’ve no reason to believe otherwise.
Save for the Scarlet Renegades at least but theyre explicit rebels. Also far as I can tell the only reason they didn’t just join the Argents is because their entire wardrobe is red so, not divorcing from the aesthetic now.
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The Scarlet Crusade have all but been wiped out. That was the final stance in BFA. The Scarlet Crusade dungeons we have are circa Cataclysm and MoP. Canonically we wiped them all out. There’s only fringe pockets of the organization left. That’s the impression I got. Once the leader, Sally Whitemane was killed by us and Lillian made sure she can’t come back by stabbing her with the blades of the annointed. I’m pretty sure the DK quests where they raise Sally, confirm the Crusade as an organization, is disbanded.