What “other” people? You can run M+ without rushing the timer. You can run M+ and rush the timer. You can do it how you want to do it. I don’t know what problem you’re referring to.
He was talking about removing world quests. That was what I was referring to. Most of my play time is spent doing world quests. I wouldn’t pay for this game if it was all dungeons and raids.
I will never support this.
My apologies. Didn’t go back through the thread to clarify your stance. I assumed you were taking a stance similar to OP. To be clear, I think there should be all types of content for all types of players. In my response to him, im specifically targeting his assertion that there needs to be yet another difficulty of 5-mans with the difficulty of M+ just without the timer. I have no strong opinion against open world or any other type of content, in the context that it shouldn’t exist. But I do have very strong opinions about the notion that the different types of content we have need to be split into 5/10/15/whatever arbitrary amount of difficulties to cater to every possible unique play style. If you don’t want to push M+ and hit the timer for the upgrade, then you don’t have to. You can take it at whatever pace you want. You just might not get 2-4 pieces of gear in the chest at the end.
Again, to reiterate, my argument is not directed at you, but at the OP.
And at that point your entire post was thrown in the trash. You had a solid idea but then you had to thrown in an unnecessary one line statement like that. Way to step all over your own message with something completely irrelevant.
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If you can’t deal with the “stress” of timers in M+, you are nowhere near ready for “difficult” dungeons.
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it’s a joke that’s why it has nothing to do with the post. having to explain a joke makes the joke not funny.
Mechagon is too easy. There is no reason why hardmode couldn’t be tougher and have each hardmode boss reward 1 430 piece like the King.
Edit: Also, the absence of a HM Tonk or Garden fight is weird.
Maybe what we need is an alternative to mythic+ in it’s current form. Where mythic+ has a timer and scales linearly, this wouldn’t. Instead it would be borderline exponential, but only a daily reset timer. Like Mythic+ gear is only awarded on completion, and it gives a key upgrade or downgrade. Mode selection is made when the key is put in.
Honestly I don’t think so, I think that aside from azerite acquisition the gearing system for M0 and M+ is pretty decent as standalone in the sense that we have small incremental upgrades with gear that go from LFR to Heroic Raid levels, now part of the problem is that this system is in direct competition with a solo player gearing system that’s honestly way too rewarding.
I don’t have anything against non raiders or non hardcore players having avenues to get good gear but I think it went a bit overboard in BFA and this does cause problems like making non M+ dungeons completely irrelevant and faceroll way too quickly, same goes for LFR and even Normal Raiding to an extend.
However now that the box of the free loot has been opened, it’s hard to take it away, and there’s also the argument of non-hardcore players also wanting avenues for gear progression which is fair to ask… It’s honestly not an easy problem to solve…
I do however have an idea on how to maybe solve it, I’m not saying this idea is 100% right but I think it’s worth exploring… I think that part of the problem with M+ keystones is that not finishing in time means “you failed” the key depletes one level and now you need to go back to do one level lower, essentially not only you didn’t progress, but you regressed which is imo very very bad for a game (and actually almost no game works like this, for good reason).
So my suggestion would be to make a very simple change, which is that for keys below the +10 mark, not making the timer would not regress your key, it will instead count as “successfully completed” and give you a same-level key for a different dungeon, then have the timer to be more of like a “bonus” that allows you to upgrade the key. (The goal here is that not going for timer doesn’t “feel” like failing the dungeon but could be more of a normal thing to do for non hardcore players)
This is in fact how most games work, lets see a few simple examples:
- Mario (pretty much any game in the franchise) - You fail a level, you attempt the same level again over and over until you beat it.
- Candy crush - When you fail a level, you attempt the same level again, you don’t go back and do the previous one.
- WoW (Raiding) - When you wipe on a boss, you attempt the same boss again, you don’t have to go and re-kill the previous boss.
Dungeons in cata werent hard. You were just bad OP.
I dont understand why you would want world quests removed either.
Both are horrible ideas.
A possible change would be to make it so that your key simply doesn’t burn it out if you fail the timer, it simply doesn’t get any better and doesn’t award a weekly cache like it would if you succeeded. But will re-roll your dungeon on your key.
That way there’s little penalty for failure for people who just want to run for the chest drops, beating it faster gives you extra loot and upgrades your key. But you can still run more M+ just without the rush/rush/rush hanging over your head, if you just wanna relax and play it slow.
This really only works if we can get a community that can stick around for longer than zero wipes.
Too many people just bail the moment there’s a single wipe.
They tried this once, back in Cata, and it blew up in their face. The sad reality is that that genie was let out of the bottle a long time ago and no matter how hard Blizzard tries (and they do keep trying in fashion or another) it always results the same.
I like to call it the “We want to make healing matter again!” syndrome, where it’s something of a running joke that they state they’re going to do something but revert it back to the status quo, every time.
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^^That. (well, he changed his post). What he said was that Mythic Plus is the content you’re asking for. It’s there. It’s available. It’s 5-man; it’s difficult; it’s varied; and it’s a path to progression.
Seriously. That’s it. M+ IS the content you’re saying you want. It’s replayable because of affixes, and it’s difficult, with or without the timer.
You have been given what you’re asking for. The people who dismiss M+ as a “rush” have no idea what they’re talking about…or they’ve had one really awful experience with pugs and quit. Or, they’re intimidated by the timer so they don’t even try to understand what it’s all about. M+ is amazing, and I say this as someone who pines for DM and Scholo, etc. My first M+ key was like a revelation. This is what I had been missing since the end of Vanilla when it all changed. Forced teamwork. Forced engagement with the entire class toolbox. Forced skill progression. That’s mythic plus. Get over the timer, make friends with four people, and get in there.
Get a group to play with of non-jerk people. M+ is glorious, and it’s exactly–exactly–what you’re asking for.
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since m+ became an esport its not going away that it your 5 man hard content.
do it or not.
A noticeable complaint about M+ is the gogogogogogogo mentality of them. I don’t hate them, but I can understand why people are turned off to them.
I wouldn’t be against a design that isn’t time centric. Like beating the dungeon in time rewarded extra loot, but each boss rewarded loot as normal.
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Sure, some people play it as an esport. Others of us get on comms together, run the dungeon, and attempt to beat the timer.
It’s not rushing. It’s not “go go go.” It just isn’t. It’s steady movement and getting to know your team and the dungeon. It’s difficult and you don’t have to schedule it.
It’s exactly what people are saying they want, and when you say, “Hey, go do M+,” they give you a litany of reasons M+ is not for them. Clearly…that means you don’t really want 5-man content that is difficult. Because there it is.
You don’t HAVE to observe the timer, but if you execute the dungeon well, you will. If you’re using CC and cooldowns properly, you’ll time it. Just like the old blue dungeons of Vanilla. If you know the dungeon, you’ll clear it without issue. If you don’t, the fails will be good practice. If you pug, it could be a toxic disappointment or it could make a new friend for you.
I fail to understand ANY of the arguments against M+ being exactly what you say you want.
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the point was to the op m+ is now an esprot and its not going away.m+ will be your hard 5 man content even in the next expansion.
They exist…its called Mythic + /thread