The "Renewal" for the Night Elves

Lore Story Forum
67

Y’know, maybe don’t go around making these narcisistic claims to be responsible for my decision on what to post, while simultaneously denying using manipulation tactics.

It’s not the look you think it is.

Well, for one…

Let’s address this.

Because no. I never said the cinematic was positive.

I figured, after you responded to this assumption, that maybe I was unclear. I clarified that it was the portrayal of Tyrande, compared to her past portrayals in-game (specifically citing Val’Sharah) as less competent than, well, just about every NPC around, needing the PC to walk her through everything and falling for an obvious trick with Xavius and the emo Malfurion illusions.

Nope, Alynsa couldn’t’ve said that, she’s claiming the cinematic is positive.

I’ve continued pointing that difference out, even after and within my above rant, and still.

Naw, still gotta be just saying the cinematic is positive.

Not once have you addressed what I said. You keep doubling down that I’m calling this cinematic positive, in spite of my repeated statements it’s crap. And when I call you out for not addressing what I’ve actually said? “Yes I am, all you said was the cinematic is positive.”

Manipulation.
Trying to convince me that the very words I’m typing are different from what they are.
Insisting I’m saying something else entirely.

Gaslighting.

You literally claimed my entire motivation to post was literally about you.

And, you had all the evidence it wasn’t, because in most of those other discussions with other people that I mentioned?

You read. You liked. You even responded. So you knew those other arguments happened. I had already told you it was about more than just you, and still…

And still. You keep making it about you. It’s because of you. It wouldn’t have happened, if not for you.

Narcisism.
Manipulation.

I only acted because of you.

But sure, claiming responsibility for when and how I act isn’t gaslighting.

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:roll_eyes: I wholeheartedly deny and reject this characterization of me. But if it makes you feel good to make me out to be a demon then go nuts.

The cinematic being a positive and the depiction of Tyrande being a positive are one and the same when spoken in the context of what Night Elves are getting in terms of positivity. I have already talked to you about WHY the depiction of Tyrande is not positive IN MY OPINION and disagreed with you.
And also in my opinion the cinematic was NOT a positive for Night Elf fans BUT it was a positive for Sylvanas fans who wanted to do some cool moves and poof away again.

You are arguing yourself into a smaller and smaller box on the points that you made.
Also just FYI this is the sole disagreement between us that has seems escalated to this level.

As indicated above. I disagree with your premise and reject it for the reasons I have outlined.
Feel free to disagree or agree. If you genuinely cannot tell the difference between differing opinions and disagreements with emotional manipulations then I cannot do anything.
Whatever reasoning I try to bring up you will accuse me of gaslighting you or manipulating you. So all I will say is.
I disagree with you. As I have been for the past god knows how long tonight.

Post what? be specific. If you are talking about the rant then yes. It seems I pushed you to the point of posting that rant. Which seems I must stress was not a manifesto solely focused on me. Only that our conversation seems to have been the trigger to you posting it. I cannot imagine a scenario where we did not converse and you would post that rant here. In this thread.

Have you ever hear the expression the straw that broke the camels back? I think that applies here. Or am I wrong to assume that?

Looks like we have moved entirely away from the main topic at hand now and your sole focus is to just make me out to be the worst sort of human being.
Yes I do feel responsible by somehow pushing you to this point because as of post 20 (also deleted) something happened to push you to make the posts.
You call me a narcissit or a manipulator for assuming responsibility and trying to epathize with you.

Why can’t you and I just disagree on something? Why does one person have to submit to the other one’s opinion? You think I am wrong to have one position while you hold the other? Fine. Thats ok.
Why do you feel the need to caricaturize me as a sociopath?

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69

Why deny when you’ll just confirm?

I told you that you’re not responsible. You insist that you are.

Do I have any agency in my own posting decisions? Honest question, because you’re here still denying I do, despite my protests.

Oh, okay, the only agency I have is when it’s negative towards you.

The size of my “box” was firmly established in my first, now deleted, response to you. You are the one insisting my argument is changing when it remains the same as established back then.

Active and doing things on her own Tyrande > Passive Tyrande, needing the PC to do things for her

You’ve never truly commented on this, even when it was drawn out for you. You’ll give some sidenote, like the Nathanos fight was better, but since what, Post #34, you’ve avoided the fact that, as stated back then, what I view from that cinematic as a positive is Tyrande is acting, instead of letting others act for her.

No. The cinematic tho. Still the cinematic tho. Bring it back to being all about the cinematic tho.

Like, if I wanted to make baseless accusations like you claim I’ve done (in spite of quoting your own repeated statements that show exactly the behavior I’ve accused you of), I’d’ve just accused you of hating a woman acting independently. But I didn’t and I won’t because I don’t think that of you.

Strange, because the quote that stared my rant was by Lenastus.

I believe I already made clear that what instigated it was someone saying something, giving me a quote, that felt appropriate.

That you cannot imagine me acting without you instigating says more about your lack of imagination (and again, narcisism) than my motivation.

It could just as well have been a response to Ethriel.

Narcissist, not sociopath.

I don’t doubt you feel empathy. I do, however, believe you have an inflated sense of importance and impact. You’ve repeatedly shown it to me here.

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I am just explaining to you what I am thinking and I came to this conclusion. Why are you constantly assuming the worst of whatever I say?
“Oh man I prefer cats over dogs…” and your response reads like I said I wanted to kill all puppies in my vicinity.

And yes you do have agency, I never said you did not.

What?! How did you arrive to this conclusion?

I did not disagree with this premise. What I am constantly and inexhaustively telling you is that the cinematic you are using as an example to demonstrate this point is wrong.
There are better examples of that and that cinematic IN MY OPINION was a negative.
Feel free to use your agency to disagree. I never said you could not.
Allow me to rephrase. Every single second of that cinematic was a negative. At no point in the entire cinematic could I point towards something that led me to say “wow this is great for Tyrande or the Night Elves.”

Yes because its the source of the positivity you are trying to convince me to adopt as you have, and I have repeatedly told you I don’t.

Trust me you have done so in spades. I never once called you names or acted abusive towards you as you have with me. Go ahead and read back. I never treated you with any disrespect or anything resembling that. I simply disagreed with you on your take.
And a few rants, accusations and deleted posts later here we are.

Which was in direct reference to after your first rant of “I give up you win argument”
His entire post was about characterizing me and gaslighting what I was saying into something else. You complain of people othering other people and yet his entire post was exactly that. Othering.

But fine if you are saying that this… outburst has absolutely NOTHING to do with me or our earlier discussion in regard to the cinematic then I guess my conscience is clear.

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71

You literally did when you ascribed my actions to be caused by you. You made me respond. You made me post. If not for you, I wouldn’t have said anything.

These are things you’ve said. I previously quoted them for you. If you still cannot see how that reads, you never will.

Actually, this is the first time you’ve told me you agree with my premise, or even acknowledged it is my premise at all.

The fact it took this long for you to even acknowledge that premise exists is part of what I’m saying here.

Accusations aren’t baseless when you repeatedly show the foundation of them.

Wow. Diminishing language. Love it. My rant is just an… Outburst now.

So again, clearly you just don’t want to read the words I write because it’s much better for your ego to manipulate them into something else.

You did not inspire me. You did not push me. You did not make me. My rant was done because I chose to do it. I had things I wanted to get off my chest, so I did.

You were one of those things.

So was Ethriel. So was Akiyass. So was Erevien. So were a lot of people.

I not only never said my rant had “nothing to do with you”, I acknowledged part of it certainly applied to you.

But don’t you dare go on talking about how without you, I never would have gone on my rant. If not for you, I never would have done the word-typing thing. I only ranted because you happened.

Those are not the same. Don’t go around now pretending they are. As I said earlier, that manipulation tactic ain’t working any more.

If you cannot address what I say and can only address what you want and/or need me to say, expect to have it called out.

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Yes that one rant. I never claimed to control your every action. Literally my point as I said you always assume the worst possible interpretation of what I say. You tell me its important to respond to the entire point but selectively quoting me and raising points I have already answered is totally uncalled for.

Your premise, as in the idea behind it. Yeah a more proactive Tyrande who doesn’t want that? BUUUUUUT this entire discussion is in regards to the cinematic and that is what we are talking about. Being in the context of that idea. If you hadn’t deleted your posts maybe it would be easier to go back and review.

It really isn’t.
And you have once again cut out the bulk of points on what I am saying while skipping over to the next bit.
What are we even discussing here if not this issue? Just to throw shade my way as some sort of monster you have conjured up to bring down? Really?

Ok then we are done here then.
Please put me on your ignore list and never respond to a single post of mine again.
I will do the same with you.
If you genuinely think this then do it.

It will save us both an incredible amount of time.

What would you call it? A polite conversation as you accuse me of whatever comes to your mind?

I can’t do this anymore. I just can’t. whatever. I am done. Goodnight.
I can’t keep running around the same circle.

73

Oh my god, dude.

I only accused you that one rant.

Again, no. I made that clear very early on. You ignored me and continued with “but cinematic tho”.

You know why I deleted them?

Because I was tired of you not only not reading them, but also misrepresenting them. Clearly what I actually said wasn’t important, so why bother keeping them around?

You had your bone, and you were gonna dog it all the way down come hell or high water.

It really is tho.

A rant.

It’s literally what I initially called it.

Why can’t that be enough for you?

Why can’;t my words actually be just that; my own words? Why do I need to rephrase them with you? Why do you need to rephrase them for me?

No. I don’t put people on ignore.

Furthermore, I’m not going to put you on ignore just because you act like a narcissist. You’ve made good points with others in the past, had very valid arguments, and overall seem a decent person beyond that.

I don’t throw someone in the bin for having a flaw.

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Then I will because I am done being insulted and villainized over and over again despite my best attempts clear the misunderstanding. We have been going back and forth for hours almost none stop. This is the second time this has happened and both times it has been caused from what.

I THINK.

To be minor disagreement, but they always escalate to this.
You will be the first person I ever add to an ignore list but its only because I think its best we stay away from each other.

I cannot in good conscience speak and interact with someone who feels like I am abusing them like this. Good night to you.

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75

In the future, from my observations between you and me, and between you and others, you might have fewer “misunderstandings” if you simply stop. Read over what you’re about to respond to again. Consider if what is being typed is what you’ve assumed it to be.

Then, when responding, when reading others’ responses, repeat the process again.

Because the other dispute we had? It went exactly the same way. I typed a thing. You responded. I clarified. You… Pretended I did not clarify, ran off in a different direction from what I actually said, attributed arguments to me that I never made, and quickly started speaking down to me.

You’ve done this with others as well. I saw them make similar accusations. They usually have to just drop it on end up in their own infinity argument with you. I’ve seen the same manipulation, the same gaslighting, just more and more of the same.

If you honestly believe this is all in error, double-check yourself. Put biases and assumptions away, and actually read.

You might shock yourself with what you find.

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There’s the cinematic and another build.

Still nothing for Night Elves

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How is that weekly quest not addressing it?

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Generally, weekly repeatable content is not really something that addresses a story issue.
Its like the Darkshore warfront that finally got resolved in an interview that the canonical winner of Darkshore was the Alliance.

for that sort of story necessity, you really need to address it in the game with a cinematic of somekind or some sort of event otherwise it doesn’t really feel resolved. I just wish that Blizzard made the same investment of tying up Alliance plot points like they do the Horde’s. Like the Saurfang cinematics… I hope something like that is coming to address everything that has happened.
Something to the same degree is needed and I doubt any interview or some small passage in a book would really address the problems raised in game.

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While some people may not enjoy the development, the Kaldorei have been getting consistent story unlike the majority of races.

They are also the only race to specifically be shown to have been focused on finding in the maw, which is quite something imo when literally everyone is going there. I do not understand the OPs obsession with rezzing the Kaldorei or what have you. Shandris, Ysera and even Tyrande I believe make comments on how the Maw Walker has went out of their way to save the victims of Teldrassil that they could.

There is also no doubt more Kaldorei story to come.

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Maybe but instead of getting little pieces if we get one big piece of content that resolves things and we can just END it all there. We leave the NEs in a positive state and move on to other races and content.
It constantly feels like a tease of something great and in the last moments it fails everything it strived to do. Its just evil.
The Dwarves have been pretty much the same since vanilla and its absolutely great.

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82

Dwarves prove everyone just needs to live in bunker cities. Bunker cities for everyone!

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83

Ok, so the Horde and Sylvanas are not responsible, and its a Jailor the one who is really responsible for everything that have happened to Night Elves.

But the question is, will there be at least one single Night Elf fighting against Jailor in the last battle? Will at least one Night Elf get revenges at least against him?
Or it will be Azshara v2.0 where Jaina was more important than Night Elves?

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Uh no. There is nothing in 9.2 regarding them, meaning most of their souls ended up being obliterated in the maw.

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The only things that are known:
1). Tyrande will have a dialog with Sylvanas, where she will forgive Sylvanas.

2). There will be Maiev visiting the court in the end of the 9.2 (wonder why not Malfurion).

P.S. tnx @Ethriel for everything what you are doing for Night Elves. Hope you will win something for Night Elves in the end from Blizzard.

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It is a bit early to say she is forgiving Sylvanas. That’s just like what happened with people thinking she was saying she was mind controlled by Zovaal until no, it turns out she was actually talking about Arthas.

It still seems more likely she is talking to the Horde PC, and thanking them for their efforts to set things right and stop Banshee Queen Sylvannas.

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Yes, she says it because Sylvanas helped free Anduin and defeat the Jailer, but it’s still bs because the Night Elf Souls are still in the maw. Things aren’t set right with the night elf souls obliterated.

I wish, but so far all my efforts to get anything positive for night elves have been in vain…

But that still wouldn’t address the Night Elf Souls that are still in the maw. Saying that things are set right with their souls still in the maw or obliterated in the maw is complete nonsense.