The "Renewal" for the Night Elves

Lore Story Forum
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I just rewatched the fight and “in the bag” isn’t exact, sure, but I haven’t watch it since it was current, and it’s p obvious that Ty wasn’t going to win that fight on her own. So “one sided” maybe.
Still the idea that she was going to lose that fight or that it was supposed to be the big revenge/make it right for the NE’s cinematic is just silly. Syl dodges every attack, and when shes standing still Ty still manages to miss her throws. When Ty knocks Syl out of the sky, shes choking her for all of 4 seconds before Syl takes Ty’s hands away from her neck. If it wasn’t for Ysera, Ty would of lost, but muh plot armor.
I think we agree that it wasn’t a good cinematic. Cringe Nathanos reference and all.

I never said “It wasn’t a good thing” that we went and saved the souls, I mean sure that’s “closure”, which is better than literally nothing.
That said needing to do it because they were canonically genocided was not a good thing. The “WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER SOULS!?” doesn’t really apply because they all died (as far as the lore is concerned) equally enough, it’s not like all of Mulgore got torched.
Those aren’t the same trail of thought imo.

I have no idea who the poster you are refereing to is.

We must remove all heads of the hydra before proceeding. I think there’s one left.

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48

If people were actually honest about good content that NEs and Alliance can get to have more joy about the story then we can have a more constructive discussion.

What is more gaslighting?

To insinuate your feelings aren’t valid for material that was probably intended to please your fandom?
Or insisting on wanting better content that the other fandom claims you have already gotten?

The problem with Alliance and especially NEs is that its like we are constantly chasing a dollar bill and as soon as we almost grab it, its yanked away from us.

Horde players (and its always Horde players) point towards the moments before you grabbed the dollar bill and say. “Yeah… well you almost had it so what are you talking about? You should be thankful and happy you almost got it!”

And do you know why people can’t be happy with the almost? Because thats as close as we will ever get.

All I and others argue for is… let us get dollar bill.
Please? Can we please JUST get that dollar bill for once?

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49

Not even close. If the Horde development of Bfa was indeed positive then the night elves would be dead and Darkshore and Ashenvale fully conquered. Like all the rest of Kalimdor. But that didn’t happen.

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Warning: Big rant incoming. To take some of the edge out, I’m’a replace the bad words with funny substitutes. They will be bolded and italicized for extra fun.

I’ve noticed that. Even the mention that their favorites got a small, tiny something amidst the absolute wreckage surrounding them somehow gets twisted. “Oh, so you’re saying this small, tiny something is good then and everything around it must also be good??!!??”

Like, no. I only said it was a small, tiny something. I very specifically said it was admist wreckage.

Even when we’re in agreement with something as easy to agree with like “Shadowlands sucks, from a story perspective”, there’s some dire need to force a caveat like “but it sucks for my favorites more”.

Are you.
Ducking.
Kidding me right now???

There is no ducking contest to find out who the DUCK had a worse experience, Dog damn it!! You don’t win some shippy ducking prize for diminishing some other Momma Ducker’s misery!!!

We can all hate this DOG DAMN MOMMA DUCKING FULLSHIP DUCKING story!!! And we can hate it based on it’s own momma ducking merits.

Why artificially inflate something meant as a resolution, no matter how out-of-touch it may be, into some dire ducking insult that disparages your very ancestors?? Why pretend things were ducking better when the only prominent female character who hadn’t either gone evil or gone insane was instead portrayed as a lost, weak shippy brass school girl looking for her man, rather than acknowledging that at least she was shown able to fight without an adventurer there to do the actual fighting, even if that too was ducking ship???

Dog. It’s like they actually preferred Tyrande when she was screaming in the woods for her man. It almost looks like they prefer their female characters to act like “good little girls”, inseperable from their stronger male attachments. Which I’m sure is not really the case (though within the next two hours, tops, someone will insist I believe), but they get all bent out of shape the second they act any other way.

They live for this weird version of player vs play, but one where it’s not an in-game system, but one where they have to do their dog damn ducking best to take a giant ship all over everyone who plays a different colored portrait than them. I ducking try. I ducking try to find some common ground, and what’s the first thought one of these momma ducking ship posters says?

“Well, hard to stop treating Horde players like the enemy when they’re out here not ducking posting about how the Horde can make amends to the Alliance players!!!” I don’t ducking owe it to you to make amends for ducking fullship I had nothing to do with! I’m not a ducking developer, brasspole!!! I do not owe you amends!!!

Dog!!!

(PS: All references to dogs did not involve actual dogs. No dogs were harmed in the typing of this post. Micah, please don’t hurt me)

(PPS: To our resident Russian, I am so very sorry for how confusing this post must be for you, due to the word replacement. Just assume I said many angry words)

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51

Looks like we are going with Option A. :smiley:

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52

Next time, just admit you couldn’t read it, ducking brasspole.

Because I didn’t accuse you of that at all.

But by all ducking means, go with gaslighting again.

EDIT: inb4 my next forum time-out from this all getting reported. See y’all in a few days, I’m sure.

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53

Your entire rant is because I did not view the fight cinematic as positive for reasons I explained.
You are essentially telling an Alliance fan what they should feel about content aimed at them.
How their feelings aren’t valid.

But yeah… I am gaslighting you. sigh.

I know you don’t like upvotes but there might be a reason why some night elf fans are upvoting me and the horde/sylvanas fans are upvoting you. If I was such a fringe lunatic then everyone should be upvoting you.

Anyway good luck to you. Have a good day.

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54

The raw egotism here is amazing.

Put yourself in check. You’re one of dozens of people I’m ranting about. I’ve been going at it with people like yourself for days now. It’s not hard to see. Hell, you acknowledged it your own self earlier.

Try harder.

Then why didn’t I tell you ship-all about how to feel?

Oh. Right. Because I didn’t.

You do keep trying.

Funny. Most of my posts have members of both factions, people who advocate for both night elves and for tauren and for the general health of the game, giving them those oh-so-precious-to-you “upvotes”. Why would you pretend I can’t click on my own posts to check this?

Right. Gaslighting.

Since you wanted to bring it up?

I still get more than you. You know this. You acknowledge this. You even gave me a nice excuse for it.

Get your basic manipulation tactics out of here. I’m done playing nice with them.

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55

You are insisting a cinematic is positive. I simply disagreed and here we are.
A cinematic’s development for the other faction and other race.

Besides Micah? Who keeps going round on round on wheel of opinions? Yeah the results are pretty clear. I am not gaslighting you by telling you the cinematic you are telling me to value as a positive is not actually positive for me.
You want to view it as a positive? go for it but I don’t and i explained why and you lost your mind.

Like I said I am hated here and most of the upvotes are from individuals that I don’t really care for their opinion. Ironically all of them put together don’t hold as much as stock I put in your opinion.
The upvote thing was just to demonstrate to you that some (not all) night elf fans do not like. And unlike Lenastus’ opinion that this is all malicious intent from people like me is perhaps actually a genuine feeling.

This whole debate started really when you started with the claim that shadowlands was actually more positive for the night elves than other races. When challenged on the positive we ended up here.
I gave you the Horde BFA “positives” to make you understand that its the same sentiment from people like us.
I am not manipulating you. I am just telling you my side of the perspective on this.
Accept it or don’t. Why are you getting upset over this?

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56

In the word “duck” and “ducking” should you replace “d” with “f”?
“Ducking” makes sense if you give it the meaning of “dodge”, “tune”. All the way and all makes sense! :upside_down_face:

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Keep failing to grasp the point. I’ve always been consistent with what I want. For someone who claimed they weren’t here to argue the lore, that sure didnt last long.

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I was reffering to the days of me arguing that the Horde must this and Alliance must do that with someone for like 500 posts. If you see me doing that again, smack me over the head.
The only thing I am arguing here is my current take on the story. Alynsa seems to argue in good faith so I am just trying to make my position plain though I can’t seem to achieve that goal.

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Argue with her about it and leave me out it. I’ve been consistent with what I want.

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Again, just admit you can’t read or chose not to. Blatant lies aren’t working.

Try being honest for once. It might work for you.

Yeah. Besides Micah.

Again with the gaslighting. Given your fetish-like focus on engagement metrics, you undoubtedly already know this, so why even try dishonest manipulation now?

See? Already with the excuses, right after bragging about your own likes.

Manipulation. Basic-level at that.

Except you never did challange that premise. You only talked about a single cinematic and called it case closed. You flat out could not address the rest because you either lacked a solid argument, or knew any argument you made would come across poorly.

No. You claimed you could find them. A hyperbolic statement to be sure, one only made because you lacked a real argument to counter the rest of my points, instead nitpicking a single one and twisting what I’d actually brought up regarding said cinematic because on the face of it (“active Tyrande > passive, crying Tyrande”) you knew you couldn’t make a real argument that didn’t also make you look really bad.

So, lacking anything else, you focused on the one point I agreed with in the very beginning, that even these “positives” were sandwiched in a bunch of crap, pretended I hadn’t said that (which I had), and used it as an argument that… Well, if it’s sandwiched in crap, the positives become negatives. Because.

That is what started the debate.

“Why are you getting upset that I’ve been trying to gaslight you” is a weird way to go, Smallz.

Yes. I didn’t want my word replacement to exclude you. :heart:

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61

I just don’t get the weird obsession with me…It’s like he doesn’t understand opinions can change. Other than that, I been pretty damn consistent what I want from the game.

This is why I hate certain posters here, they attack and gaslight you for having opinions that don’t align with theirs

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This response is intended to bring levity.

For real? You don’t get why someone might be obsessed with the best doggo on the Story Forums? The answer should be obvious.

Tail wags.

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Snuggles You, ren and Deathisfinal are my favorite posters to talk to on here. :heart:

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64

I would but you deleted all your posts.
Check post #29
and this:

Thats all that was said. You said it was positive and I said no. Thats it and thats all.

Then we started to argue why its positive or not positive.
I didn’t ask you to make amends or even say which faction has it worse.
I literally said that this cinematic was not positive for ME and you could have just said “Well I think it was pretty positive” and we could have ended it there.

Thats not what gaslighting is.
Gaslighting means is to make someone’s feeling invalid and lead them to a different direction. Typically done in abusive relationships with much higher stakes.
I am not trying to get to change your opinion. All I said was I don’t view THAT cinematic as a positive.

it literally isn’t its the truth.
There is a discord out called the story forum discord and I constantly get my posts flagged by the community and the mods review it and restore it.
Idk if its them but its what i deal with every time i post here.

Yes. We can find positives in all things and its actually all true.
The problem is that this positive in ratdoodoo and I don’t think it was worth it for you to get from Blizzard.
I am not here telling you that BFA was a positive development for you, I am telling you thats how you come across with this discussion.

Yes you did and I agreed with all of it except one thing. That the Sylvanas v Tyrande fight was a positive for NEs (and Alliance) or it was good positive depiction of here. Which really wasn’t.
The Darkshore questline up until Nathanos flies away was Tyrande at her best compared to anything else we have seen in years. Cinematic included.
But thats just my opinion.

It genuinely feels like you are upset that I did not accept that cinematic as a positive. Would we be here if I had replied to you “Yeah totally that cinematic was a good showing for Tyrande!”
Yeah I doubt it.

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65

… That’s not really your defense for misreading, blatant lies, and/or choosing not to be honest, is it?

Because you might want to restate what you were trying to say with a different quote.

That’s the problem with being so self-centered that you though my rant was all about you.

You come to find out later that the parts that didn’t make sense?

WERE NOT ABOUT YOU BECAUSE THE RANT WAS NOT ABOUT JUST YOU.

So, what you’ve been doing.

And what you’ve been trying to do.

Got it.

But no, gaslighting is when you use manipulation tactics to cause them to question things they know to be real.

Like when you twist and reframe a person’s own words to force them into some diametrically opposite meaning, just so you can tell them how wrong they are.

Which you’ve also been doing and I’m tired of playing nice around it.

To three people.

More agreed with you. You’re fixated on numbers, so please explain that to me.

Actually, don’t bother. Because you’re already starting off with a bold distortion of the truth.

You’re claiming I said the night elves got out of Shadowlands with positives. No.

I said my hot take was the night elves got more positives in the crap pile of dog waste that has been handed to all of us than any other playable race, and it was still miniscule at best.

I never said they had a net positive time in SL. Far from it.

Stop trying to manipulate the truth to lead me in a different direction.

Because there’s no way I’m upset about the things I mentioned in the longwinded, sorta-comedic rant I posted up above, right?

I mean sure, I had a back and forth with Ethriel. And with Akiyass (sorry for getting your name wrong, I’m bad at remembering them). And with a few other people yesterday. And again today.

But really, it must be about just you, in spite of as you noticed, I was addressing things that you know had nothing to do with you.

Clearly, everything is just about you.

Narcissism.

It depends. Would you have then argued that saving those night elf souls was also a negative and that I’m wrong and really, that alone does address everything I said when I specifically ask you to maybe address my other points?

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What am I lying about? It is literally the truth.

Alright fair enough but I felt responsible for eliciting that response from you. I doubt if I hadn’t talked to you that you would have posted that rant.

As I said numerous times I didn’t say your feeling of that positivity is wrong. I said I did not think it was positive.

What did I say to make you think what you said isn’t real?
You said something is positive for me. I said it didn’t feel positive. I have the quote right up there and you can check it. I don’t understand why you are trying to demonize me like this. I literally did nothing to you except explain why I didn’t find that cinematic positive. wtf.

What truth have I been distorting? you are quoting me out of context with some juvenile jabs that I am gaslighting you, or lying, manipulating you. You think the cinematic is positive? Good for you. It doesn’t feel like a positive cinematic to me.
When I checked the upvotes I saw that it seemd most people who upvoted me are night elf players while the people who upvoted you are Horde players. The one NE oriented person was Micah and I addressed that.
This is all to make you understand that maybe other Night Elf fans besides myself also feel the same way.

That is true and my first point was a jet going high above and then crashing down in spectacular fashion.
The second thing I quoted was that cinematic specifically. And ever since then we have been talking about that.
The cinematic in question had Tyrande “survive” against sylvanas. You viewed it as a positive. I said it wasn’t.
Maybe in isolation you could argue its a positive but since there are all the negatives I explained wrapped around it it was a net negative. Not SL. Just that cinematic.

I only told you how I felt. I know you take issue with claiming to speak on behalf of others so I only speak on my own behalf and perhaps on the behalf of those who gave me little updoot. I never said its all about me and I don’t understand why you are trying to depict me this way.

Never said it was… jesus christ man what did I do to piss you off so much?

We are talking about the cinematic for now. I want to clear that misunderstanding first before we open up any new lines of discussions.
But if this would clear things up for you…

Honestly I do not care what happens to the souls of the dead. If the souls got saved then its the cherry on top. Good for them. But the only thing that concerns me is the NEs still on Azeroth and the characters that are in Shadowlands supposedly seeking justice/vengeance and for now… as I suspected will not be happening.

But if you expect me to shed a tear of joy at all the souls saved then you and the wow writers will be sorely disappointed. Saving couple of souls on every reset doesn’t alleviate anything in BFA.
Thats why when Ethriel cries about the souls I could not care any less about them.
In short its a nice to have positive but whether i got it or not doesn’t affect me.

What other points? All you have been doing for the past hour is making me out to be a piece of .

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