Please explain what items are only available by paying real money.
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No it isnt,your definition is so bad it literally means every mmo is pay 2 win.
The phrase was coined off mobile games, where you fought other players in some way, which is what the “winning” part of the phrase is.
Because people who spent IRL money for massive advantages off the cash shop then took those advantages into the game and destroyed other players who didnt pay real money.
Thats literally what pay 2 win was.
If the game lets you spend real money for an ingame advantage then it’s pay 2 win. You’re stretching the definition to try and include the possibility of transactions outside the framework of the game, just by the possibility of trading existing. This doesn’t apply to every game. So I will elaborate, though I expect people to ignore all of it:
- In-Game Trading: This is a feature in many games where players can exchange items, currency, or services within the game’s economy. Trading is a part of the game’s design and is accessible to all players as part of the gameplay experience.
- Pay-to-Win Elements: Pay-to-win elements involve the use of real-world money to obtain in-game advantages. The key difference is the source of the advantage (real money) and its impact on game balance and fairness.
So now that this is established, let’s go into the way pay 2 win works ingame:
- Direct P2W: Some games sell items, boosts, or currency directly for real money that give players an advantage.
- Indirect P2W: In the case of World of Warcraft Classic and GDKPs, while the game itself does not sell gold or items for real money, players circumventing the system by purchasing gold with real money and using it in GDKPs can create a P2W scenario. It’s indirect because the advantage comes from outside the game’s intended mechanics. While indirect is is still pay to win
This is why Classic doesn’t have the token. In other games, trading isn’t intended to be pay to win, but just because you can trade doesn’t make it pay 2 win.
You are still refusing to explain exactly what can only be acquired in WoW by spending real money.
All you’ve done is make vague statements that things can be bought with gold in WoW.
Did you just prove my point? Lol? You’ve actually trolled me so hard I’m going back to work. I can’t.
Sounds like you are playing fast and loose with the definition, stretching it to suit your own agenda here.
Nothing is vague, and your immediate response also shows you are unwilling to read responses despite criticising my statements. You aren’t interested in having a discussion, just soapboxing. So please don’t bother to reply unless you plan on having a rebuttal next time to any point instead of pretending that ingame currency cannot be purchased for ingame gold to create a pay to win scenario.
I don’t think he understands that buying gear in a raid doesn’t really give you an advantage for doing the content. The buyer can’t even buy the gear if the raid can’t be cleared. So the acquired gear is meaningless other than a way to catch up in speed. It has some impact on pvp I suppose, but they really aren’t going to be that far ahead of someone who is doing every lockout on their character.
Someone having awesome gear isn’t going to do anything against a pre-made in WSG.
That’s why I think GDKP has very little impact on the game other than making gold irrelevant. It has some affect on the economy, but the bots make anything farmable super cheap.
So every game is pay 2 win.
Thanks for clearing that up.
No no, please name the exact items and or buffs that can only be gotten through paying real money in WoW.
Should be real simple, just name one.
I think you failed to comprehend the point entirely. The existence of GDKP’s creates an outlet for WOW to become pay 2 win via paying real money for gold. Without that system, you can’t pay gold for an advantage. Your “”“point”“” was that any game has pay 2 win because you can trade. I responded by pointing out how in certain scenarios things can become pay 2 win. And instead of responding, you’ve just somehow interpreted it as agreeing with you.
My GM in TBCC was a rogue named Toxyk.
We did the enitre phase of Black Temple and the only glaive to drop was the Offhand.
My point is he could have bought 1,000,000,000,000 gold and it would of done nothing because we never seen a main hand glaive drop and we did BT week 1 of its launch all the way until sunwell ended and prepatch hit.
Is that how pay 2 win works?
The fact that you are all trying to create a rebuttal by suggesting that gold isn’t necessarily required to be bought with real money, therefore it isn’t pay 2 win is ridiculous. I know trying to argue with people on the WoW forums is like digging in wet sand, but it’s very well established that A. You can buy gold with real money and B. The winner of the gear in a GDKP is the person that bids the highest.
Someone who buys gold, has an advantage over someone that doesn’t as they can have far more gold. This, in a GDKP translates to gear and becomes pay to win. There’s been 0 rebuttal to this.
Where to even begin with this? How does buying current raid gear not give you an advantage over those that don’t have it? So now the argument is that GDKP’s can’t clear? And that the only advantage to having gear is as a catch up mechanic despite it making you do more damage/healing and makes the content easier? What even is this argument lmao. This doesn’t even include parsing.
I’ve made the claim that there’s no pay to win in WoW. The very easy rebuttal for that would be to make something specific that is pay to win in WoW.
You refuse to do so and just make vague statements about gold and using it for things. For example how has the guy who got an item in a GDKP beaten the guy who got the same item in a non GDKP run? Is the item from the GDKP somehow better?
Parsing is something that exists outside of the game. And furthermore, if you do the raid every lockout, you are barely going to be at a disadvantage compared to someone that buys the gold. You think GDKP has a huge impact, but it really doesn’t.
You’re technically correct, but it has no impact on your ability to enjoy the game. It certainly ends up being irrelevant when it comes to the next raid tier. Those that ran normal runs, their mains will be in near bis without spending 1g on gear.
You also act like people that don’t buy gold can’t get gear in gdkp. I run gdkp all the time and don’t buy gold or over pay for items. I get plenty of gear. I just don’t always buy the first time something drops.
Heres my GM’s gear on our last Sunwell raid.
He could of bought all the gold on the server and it wouldnt of helped him buy a main hand glaive.
Really pay 2 win!
Pay 2 win includes pay for convenience.
And even if you are using the standard consumes that’s less than 1g per run, I think I netted gold on my last BFD from drops lol.
While we all understand - fundamentally - that there’s always a chance based element within the loot system meaning certain items may not* drop, this doesn’t rebuke at all the idea of paying for an advantage. It’s important that we remember that word, as you also used the Cambridge definition of pay-to-win which specifically uses that term.
GDKP runs, where players bid in-game gold for loot, inherently create a scenario where those with more gold have more opportunities. This isn’t just about winning a specific item; it’s about consistently being in a position to compete for top-tier loot whenever it drops, and having the most gold gives you an advantage over everyone else.
When real-world money is used to purchase in-game gold, it directly affects these opportunities. Players who buy gold have a distinct advantage in being able to bid higher amounts more frequently. This significantly increases their chances of acquiring better gear, even though the drop of any specific item isn’t guaranteed.
Over time, these advantages can compound. Players who regularly use real money to boost their in-game gold can accumulate high-end gear more rapidly than others. This creates a widening gear gap between players, which makes clearing the content easier, even if we disregard parsing, that’s called an advantage.
Youre not going to get through.
He’s clearly not capable of logical thinking.