You see people think they need to do things and then complain while they do the unnecessary things.
For me being a 20 man isnât a problem. Two of the biggest things for me are the raid is typically 1 1/2-3 hours depending on how good your group is, and itâs not that puggable of a raid. BFD and Gnomer almost instantly you could pug the raid and it take anywhere from 20-40 minutes. With a subpar group. But ST is not this way. Itâs actually got mechanics, a lot of trash, and just takes a lot of time. On top of that, the loot isnât great and not that much. At least not for a 20 man raid with a one week lockout.
Iâm a casual wow player, I play an hour or two a day tops. So running ST is kinda impossible for me currently. But I may be in the minority. Either way I enjoy and have enjoyed SoD so far.
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Yeah I suppose ST is a little too hard for pugs or for fast runs. I guess taking care of your character by gearing up correctly and enchanting your gear is too much to ask for the average joe.
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Pugs? There are legit guilds that talk like they are super raiders but have gear I wouldnât even attempt Gnomer with. Their answer to that is âwell weâre casual and this is all you need if you know how to play.â
So on a low pop server until word gets around a lot of people pug in with a guild like that and might think ST is really hard.
Hell my guild wiped on Eranikus a bunch of times but we have to pug half the raid. So itâs not like 20 people that play together all the time. Oh and of course low population you take the comp you can get. Not exactly the one you might want. We had him to 1% multiple times just how it goes some raids. Other guilds I know people in, just finally got their 8/8 this last week. None of those are âguild onlyâ groups.
I donât think that ST is difficult. There are just mechanics that people miss and if you donât have a consistent group itâs harder to get everyone on one page. At least on Lava Lash despite seeing plenty of people (not me) in BIS⊠the 8/8 completion stats are super low. Which is weird compared to forum 8/8 stats. In fact all servers combined 8/8 completion compared to forum 8/8 is really skewedâŠ
Better you back to wow retail.
My raid is one shotting ST week 3, we cleared week 2. We didnât full clear Gnomer until week 4 or so. ST is by far easier, everything in SoD is easy, youâre just unfathomably bad.
Pretty sure the population is dying out because of these elitist jerks. Nobody wants to play with them. Theyâll soon be left to playing with themselves once they have no one else to bully but their own kind.
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I know, but they arent lvl up raids until you can actually use them to level up, until then they are the current end game raids.
People in this thread is 100% why we cant have nice things.
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OP: I donât think thereâs proof of that at all. In fact, I donât do the raid because it takes too much time and itâs boring. I donât like doing pre-made group content that long.
I like to play 45-60 minutes at a time and then check various forums or watch a YouTube video. I canât do that in pre-made group content without holding everybody up. So, super long stints are not enjoyable for me.
Iâm deciding whether or not to keep my sub going past the 3rd to level up a goblin in cata. Some PVP might be fun until D4 season 4.
A really good point, to be honest.
ST is a large step up in difficulty from BFD. You canât just mess around with the boys and clear it. For veteran players in organized guilds itâs easy but going 6/8 in a PUG does happen a lot.
That reality is kind of weird for level 50 level up content. In comparison UBRS is a joke cakewalk to ST and UBRS is higher in the progression food chain.
Maybe Blizzard did get too far away on the difficult ramp up with ST relative to itâs place in the overall leveling process.
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I donât like spending someone elseâs money, but it is totally worth $15 for that ride bro. If you like playing in shorter intervals the cata leveling experience is smooth. The dungeon finder makes it so there is no commitments if you want to grind a few dungeons. The new toons are worth a go even if this is a rerun for you imo
Itâs fun going back and forth too. Itâs like taking a sauna and rolling in the snow.
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Yeah I just rolled a goblin rogue on Faerlina . I hear sub rugs are pretty good for cata in PvP.
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Itâs one of the times sub is good at everything. Love sub in cata. GLHF
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cutting the lockouts in half to give us one 30 minute raid every seven days is what made everyone quit.
hate to break it to era andys but nobody actually plays vanilla pvp
The raid is easy. People are quitting because theyre bored and this phase was a ****ing disaster.
There is so much wrong in this post. Itâs like saying âHey lets just release an entire expansion pack all at onceâ and never updating it ever again. Just go watch the worlds best players kill the final boss two weeks in and never touch it again. The phases are crucial, especially for vanilla with how sweaty this community is.
Blizzard canât just release a game and let you get to level cap instantly and raid MC from day one ever again. You have to stop people from pulling a southpark and just sitting on their PC 24/7 till the grind is over. The community immediately fractures. Keeping people mostly together is the way to go.
If you get bored of the game because you rushed to the end thatâs on you. Thereâs other games to play, thereâs other characters you could be leveling, etc. Itâs actually refreshing to not have to ruin my life shortterm just to keep up with everyone. 1-25 was an easy ask, 26-40 was pushing it a bit, and 40-50 was simple. Get to look forward to new raids and take a break to focus on PvP instead of missing out on my precious xp per hour.
If anything the phases are going by way too quick and that is why people may feel like âall their hard workâ is being invalidated so quickly. Because people like you want to rush rush rush get to endgame asap, why are we not 60 yet??? The new levelcaps ARE the end game.
Blizzard could have done a better job at providing more endgame content to do sure. Like having a smaller raid each phase, that has one boss which is easier to pug. And a mega dungeon that you can do with 5-20 people with quests, reputation, mats, etc that could be farmed in there. If the emerald dream rep had a megadungeon to do at level cap that would have been so much better than just having to keep doing the same boring quests you did while leveling up. Leveling up and endgame should feel totally different.
But thatâs not the fault of breaking up levels into new tiers.
If you say so â I feel like gnomer had just as much trash. I guess the troll trash is pretty obnoxious, but the dragonkin are a joke; you can pretty much group them up three at a time and aoe them down. You also only need to clear like 2 dragonkin packs to go from the troll to eranikus. Just skip the rest of it. IMO they could change the first boss to be faster, where you donât have to click all the statues, but the rest of the dungeon is pretty on-par with everything else theyâve released.
The run back in gnomer was also worse imo because you had to go from the GY which was probably 4x as far from the door, then run to the clean room. It seems basically the same to me.
If you clear the singular whelping pack that goes from the entrance to the main chamber itâs only like a 30 second runback. If a 30 second runback is whatâs killing groups then idk how people want the devs to fix that.
To me, it seems like people just donât want to admit that they may need to pay attention for 3-5 minutes at a time vs. being drunk and high staring at their second monitor while hitting the 2 button rotation.
I canât tell you the amount of pugs iâve seen fall down the hole in the middle of the main chamber during the double dragon fight. Like, if you canât avoid a singular static hole in the middle of the room, then maybe itâs not a âthis is too complicatedâ issue, itâs more of a âplayers are doing something very different than looking at their monitorâ problem.
Thatâs a separate issue cause those players had to join guilds to enter 20 mans. Wouldnât count that as growth. My 10 man group lost 4 players, but our 6 joined a guild to be able to do 20mans. So from their end they grew, our end we lost players.
One week lockout + absolutely nothing else to do is why people stopped playing. ST is marginally harder than Gnomer and even that is debatable, the hardest part is actually gathering 20 people with half a brain to start pulling.
STV is recycled content, there is no point in doing BGs for rep anymore and the balancing issues in PvP. Most players arenât going to bother farming Wardens rep for a level 50 ring thatâs BiS (only this phase) by a small margin.
Once people start logging on once a week, it gets much easier to just stop logging on all together.