Agreed. Making the same raid in both 10 man and 20-man won’t work.
Personally though, I would love to see Blizzard return to the BC paradigm. I’d love to see 10-man raids exist in the game that are not the same raids as 20-man. How cool would it be if Blizzard released some dope new 6-boss 10-man mini-raid with a new Bear-mount like challenge?
I feel like the biggest problem with modern Blizzard is that they just don’t make enough stuff, so its always a scramble to try to fulfill players. Back in BC we weren’t asking for more stuff constantly because we were pretty well-fed. Nowadays it seems like the player-base is perpetually on the edge of starvation.
Unfortunately blizzard seems to have more or less forgotten that sort of not a proper raid tier but still not free content piece of the puzzle. Maybe not enough people were completing that stuff? Maybe blizz just forgot it was an option. I’d say maybe they think mythic+ fills this role so they don’t really worry about it anymore but tis was an issue before legion. I love the odd small raid that actually has some decent catchup maybe even side-BIS gear and the occasional 1 boss mini raid.
He’s right about the impact on guilds. My raid usually has 14 players. We’re close to AotC and have been talking about running with a Horde sister guild to fill the roster for mythic. Unfortunately I’m pretty sure we’d end up with more than 20 people wanting to mythic raid. That means we’d have exactly the same issues as Wumba mentions, people who are benched leaving and there is always a lot of attrition over the summer.
I’m not sure having four tiers of raiding is even good for the game. Blizzard has lowered the quality of normal and heroic loot to accommodate mythic, and the poor loot means nobody wants to farm. If you miss a prog night on a skippable boss, you may not get a kill at all. I went AotC with 10/11 bosses last season because I missed the one Fatescribe kill. After that we just skipped to KT.
What is the point of a raid tier that gets nerfed to the ground after Liquid, Echo, Method, and a handful of other guilds run a race so grueling they burn out in the process? Blizzard is basically making a raid tier for about 200 players and that makes no sense. What if there was only LFR, flex normal and flex heroic, with heroic a bit harder and tuned more carefully for flex breakpoints?
I mean with all of the different difficulty levels we have, I don’t see why you couldn’t reasonably PUG a 10-man raid on a lower difficulty like you would PUG UBRS.
What if there were no difficulty Tiers and Blizz just took a page from M+ and let Raids scale? We’re getting Raid versions of Affixes in Season 4 so maybe it’s on their radar.
I’d say smaller Raids (5 or less Bosses) that scale like M+ with scaling rewards. Lose all difficulties for Raiding and 5 mans other than keeping LFD/LFR since there’s a market for queued content.
Do they actually enjoy static 20 man content or do they enjoy doing the hardest content with the best potential rewards and doing 20 man Mythic is the only option?
People enjoy reward as way to progress their characters and the content that comes with it. Yes some players are more salty about it, but nobody is twisting their hand to play the game. And the same could be said about any content, you’ll see that tons of people in a game like wow do care about loot and the subject always get heated.
Everything is about cost and benefit. There is some benefit to the strict size certainly for the raid team in tuning encounters. It’s not that it doesn’t exist. It’s that the benefit was minor, and the cost was extreme.
A 20-man team size is a big, big size for a consistent team. I can’t think of any other major game that both increases the difficulty while increasing the number of people needed to engage the difficulty (at least at high numbers like that). It was an especially bizarre route to go for an MMO that was already a decade old.
I have yet to see how a static number is any worse than each fight having a different required number of people (because there is no way they could balance flex around breakpoints). You’d have mythic fights requiring 21 people here, 24 there, but 18 here, because of mechanical breakpoints.
I thought I was pretty clear. You said there are players that like the 20 man format and I think if you dive into it they like the difficulty and rewards and that raid size is their only option.
They don’t “love” the Raid size. They love what it gets them. If Blizz made Mythic a static 15 man size those same players would love that.
Who are you to say that, really
Just go play diablo immortal and go swipe your credit card for loot since you think that’s only what count and what people want.
Wrong. The 25 player crowd cried because they said 25 is so much harder than 10 which was only true for recruiting and logistics. There are many boss examples in MoP where a specific boss is harder or even significantly harder depending on raid size switching between 10 and 25 man.
Now we have the same crowd crying that M+ gets more or less the same rewards as mythic raiders. Its simply not an argument. And I tend to say that accessability for harder content should be priority number 1 and not the entitlement to gear which is obsolete after a few months anyways. Especially now with M+ being a thing.
This is such a red herring. If the RWF guys don’t want to set rules for themselves and they swap between 25 and 11 man groups for any and all reasons, I think it’s a non issue. Let them. It doesn’t affect anyone else.
The fixed 20 man requirement is the hardest boss in the game. This change would dramatically increase raid participation. And the risk is the RWF dudes might not set a rule for themselves AND they might do something janky?