During my two years of playing FFXIV I hated that game’s end game gearing system, I thought it was watered down and lame and almost didn’t even feel like an mmo.
Now after being back in WoW for a couple years and seeing what M+ has become, I actually greatly prefer it.
I am once again asking for a source to back up this claim.
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It’s really crazy, because the only people who hate on m+ are the heroic raiders who can’t get aotc until end of tier when they vastly out gear it by doing keys. The heroic raiders who don’t need to outgear the content don’t complain at all because they don’t need an overabundance of gear to carry their lack of mechanics / rotation. Mythic raiders don’t care. Casual normal raiders don’t care. It’s always the heroic raiders that are too ashamed to just say they aren’t good enough for the content they want to play without being forced into a mode of content where gear is a tool rather than a destination. It’s really quite sad.
I think the op has a good outlook on some of what heroic needs, and i think the systems that we have now with dinars and cyphers should be expanded on. For someone like me who only raids so that they can get a few targeted items for m+, it’s quite great. If this was a full season, I’d probably finally join my friends and do mythic raiding again so that I can actually get those targeted items to full ilvl.
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Timegating does have an effect on how you play the game. Thats just absurd to say it doesnt. If anything timegating is one of the biggest game design that affect how you play.
Too much timegating and you dont get to do anything. Too little and you have to do insane grinds to keep up or be ahead, which also can dracsticly reduce the lenght of content and/or reduce the incentives to do so.
Mythic raiders absolutely care, because you can’t gear through raiding like you used to. You HAVE to do M+ in order to clear before the season is over, especially if Blizzard keeps pulling stunts like they did in season 3, where they cut the season short by 4-5 months.
MOST of a Mythic raider’s gear, for most of progression, comes from Mythic+. Not from the raid. You can’t get it from the raid, especially once you start extending (when you get nothing at all).
When you have to spend however-many hours doing the raid every week, and on top of that you need to spend hours gearing through M+, raiding becomes a second job. And it’s been causing more and more burnout since Legion.
Signed, a GM who has seen way too many people quit the game since Legion because they cannot justify spending two to three times as much time to raid as they used to - most of which is done OUTSIDE of the raid.
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Feel you there… Went through all of Sepulcher this week on 4 different characters, not a SINGLE piece of gear for any of them. Worst rates and itemization I have seen in an expansion thus far.
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When a new season, and I hate the idea of seasons, starts you could quite possibly spend a solid week spamming M+ 15’s and just be done with M+ and be ready for Mythic raiding.
What’s interesting about this is that it offers an efficient (compared to other options) method for gearing.
How this plays out in other modes of play is that all the crafting systems in the world is going to be unoptimal if they cannot compete with +15 drops on week 1 of the season starting. Now they can exist as bad luck protection of course, but if it’s not equal or better then it’s sub-optimal by definition of being less than the optimal method.
The same happens with raiding: If the raid cannot compare to spammable +15’s in loot distribution and item level then it’s not going to really work out to be worth it until you are playing at a level where the drops are at that point, which means the last few bosses of Heroic and then Mythic raiding.
It’s an interesting little pickle the game created for itself, with some easy unexplored solutions (Looks at FF14) and some implemented ones like the Box of Disapointment and Dinars that aren’t really solutions but rather stop gaps to make it less bad.
This brings up questions like: “Why is M0 capped to once each weekly when M+ isn’t” and “Why does LFR open up so slowly” as well as “Why do I raid normal when I get better look in 5 mans” that don’t really have answers in game at this time.
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You are confusing characters with players. One guy in my guild has 8 characters above 3k. I’ve got 3 characters above 3k. Combined just the 2 of us players have 11 characters and this is fairly common amongst those of us who do enjoy M+.
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I’d like to disagree with the maths here.
Let’s round things up and say clearing a raid takes 3 hours for 10 bosses.
Since it’s 5 loots for 20 people we can assume 1/4 loot per person per bosses. Which means about 2.5 loot for 10 bosses.
The average M+ time is about 30 mins to round things up, you get 2 to 3 pieces of loot per dungeons. Which means at the minimum in 3 hours you should have gotten 12 pieces of loot so about 2.4 piece of lot per persons, but you could get up to 18 pieces of loot per persons which means the possibility of 3.6 loot per persons for 3 hours.
Add to that that pugging m+ is way faster, it’s way faster to organize, you still get loot for failing the content when raiding can wipe a lot even on heroic. I’ve wasted in average about 1.5 hour each week just to kill the jailer on heroic. And to add to the insult you can spam M+ indefinitely with a better upgrade system.
The best thing for both world is to split of M+ from raiding. So you can keep the arpg side of wow contained and so it doesn’t cannibalise any content reward under mythic raiding.
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If they did that the youtubers, twitch streamers, and world first mythic raiders would have endless amounts of loot. You know, the players Blizz only cares about. So they can’t.
Would be a shame if the game wasn’t balanced around world first raiders and twitch streamers. smh xd I have hope they have learned after sepulcher on the tuning part, but hope is not that big.
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Once you’ve cleared it and it’s on farm. During progression, it’s much slower. And while you’re still learning how to kill the bosses, you get nothing.
What happens when you fail to time a key? Oh yeah, you still get loot. And Great Vault credit.
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Mythic plus is the only reason this game has survived. Blanket statement that saying a majority hate it is wrong. the Mythic runner community is the only robust thing left. Just because you choose not to do some kind of content does not mean everyone else hates it too.
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That’s false the game survived in WoD without much casual content or m+. One could argue WoD did better in term of revenue and player statistic with we can get than BFA or SL, so it’s not as black and white. The only reason wow hasn’t crash this much further is the existence of wow Classic which keeps it afloat, which wasn’t a thing back in WoD.
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M+ is “popular” because of its welfare loot. Throw it on a weekly lockout and take away the bonus ilvls it gets in Great Vault and I think you’d see it plummet like a stone.
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Raider. io disagrees with you. Go look at the numbers recorded.
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You’re also a fan of popularity meaning players like it.
You must have loved warfronts and doing Zereth Mortis quests.
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nope, just M+ cause its what my schedule allows.
Yea M+ is definitely the easier and fastest access to rewards.
I like M+ as much as the next guy but let’s not act like it isn’t popular mainly because of the gear accessibility.
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