Or just make the difficulty to rewards ratio of mythic+ more aligned with raiding.
If mythic level gear out of the vault came from +22 keys instead of +15 keys I don’t think it would feel as much like a chore and more like it’s own progression.
Even if they did this, the spammable loot would be a thing. It would equalize it a bit, but that doesn’t solve the main issue that makes it so M+ is that much better. As M+ englobes all difficulties of content, it makes anything outside of it obsolete if not way more efficient for it for rewards when M+ is already too efficient in a way. If anything that would mean that you have to spend more time in M+ to raid as you’d have to push higher for the same rewards.
Season 2 of SL had something like 3.5 million unique characters do a M+ of any level. While some people do gear alts, it doesn’t account for anyone not doing m+, as well most people won’t try to gear more than 2 characters, so it’s pretty safe to assume they had 2.5million-ish people playing retail. Having alts in TBC is much easier, as well as the raids being much faster and easier to do, likely inflating how many players are playing if you look solely at logs.
Except a lot of BiS items drop from raid. A 278 gavel is going to be better than a 304 weapon for most melee, for example. Do both to gear up faster, or just do one or the other if you don’t like them. The only guilds requiring m+ are high-end mythic guilds and those kinds of players don’t mind doing a handful of m+ for their vault or farming a bit extra at the start of a season for gear.
Not always that isn’t always the case. Many many tiers of raid so far had people with more items from M+ than raiding.
Because you’ve eliminated all other players, that’s my point. More player should be able to get into mythic.
That should be a red flag.
Uncapped valor on season release like it is now does flip everything on its head. Though it’s a short experimental season and likely (hopefully) isn’t the path forward.
There is an interdependence on how difficult something is with how efficient it is.
By far the most time efficient gearing method is a full 1 shot clear of mythic raid. That is multiple 304 items per person, with some of those being 311 which is impossible to achieve from any other source.
So why doesn’t everyone do it? Well it’s so hard it’s not feasible.
Mythic+ can be similar with setting the vault and EoD levels along with a capped valor. EoD being 3 item levels under heroic at maybe 18 instead of 15. Requiring 20s in all dungeons for max valor upgrade rather than 15s. Then +22s or +23s for mythic level vault and all of a sudden it’s more of a real progression system rather than a chore. All of a sudden it isn’t something everyone can just knock out.
Raid gear should be better than Dungeon gear. It’s just common sense dunno why it isn’t applied anymore in this game.
Buff raid loot, leave m+ alone.
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That was 1-2 million parses every single week on multiple classes in classic, not season total like your saying for mythic+….
Except that is unrealistic unless late in the season and doesn’t account for progression.
Yes but if uncapped, it still means any leftover time after raid can be spent in it.
Funny thing is M+ gave below heroic at the start of the expansion with no valor, and many people kept doing it. M+ even without dropping the best gear or heroic+ gear is still really good.
I’m up for all solutions. I have preference toward splitting M+ from raiding, which would leave M+ alone 
I’m also fine if we double raid loot.
We need to drastically boost raid loot.
Also buff raid trinkets, no crappy ones
They are. And it’s not “common sense” it is entitlement of raiders.
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Hence why blizzard has been adding cooler items to raids, starting in SoD and Sepulcher. We will likely see that trend continue in DF.
The only thing stopping people from doing mythic is their own skill level, as well as the level of commitment it takes to kill those bosses.
Alt gearing has definitely sucked in BfA and SL, I agree. But some people like to just stick to a main and gear it to the teeth.
This. It’s weird because while it feels good to have no Valor cap and just rapidly farm out your cap and getting to upgrade gear, it also somewhat kills heroic raid rewards. Inversely, Capping valor doesn’t feel good but makes doing heroic raid every week more impactful. Not sure what a good middle ground here is that doesn’t make gearing more of a hassle (like trying to split the gear sets).
Then they should make tier only obtainable from raids to confirm that.
That’s a straigh lie, the biggest thing that stop people at that level is specificly TIME COMMITMENT.
As said in a lot of my post you didn’t quote, doing the most efficient gearing path of 1 shot clearing mythic isn’t feasible because it’s too hard.
+15s which is where gear caps are so far below in difficulty for rewards it doesn’t even resemble the same time of progression as raiding. Those could be more aligned by vastly increasing the required key level for gear along with capped valor (like most seasons and likely DF, season 4 is a one off).
I feel someone should look at pugging a key that gives a 304 in their vault and pugging 1-2 mythic raid bosses as having equal chance of success. That would be aligning difficult to reward ratios.
The problem is the upper keys where that difficulty happen has only a few classes that are viable that’s why they settled for +15s.
I feel like doubling raid loot, and increasing the key levels required to get rewards from mythic+ to better align its difficult with raids is the logical path.
People don’t just knock out a 304 from the mythic raid in a pug in their spare time for a welfare box every week. Why is mythic+ like that?
I’d also kill the great vault because it always feels like a scummy mobile loot crate but that is a different topic.
Of course it does, that is a good thing.
They need to tune raids and have gear drop rates as such that people can reasonably gear via raiding without feeling bad about not doing keys.
There should be an advantage for people who engage both. I do keys with people who heroic raid and they have better gear than me (I don’t raid). It’s okay 
Last season all 36 specs timed something like a +26 or so.
Exponential scaling really takes off near the end. A +32 is essentially double the difficulty of a +25 (everything has twice as much health and twice as much damage) so really ramps up near the end.
The +15 bar is REALLY low. I mean people 3 man them.
Why? Why the solution about buffing the drops from the things you play isn’t enough?
Gotta take away the thing from others too.
Thats why no one takes the “solution” of raiders seriously. It’s not about acquiring gear, it’s about acquiring it AND denying it to others.
It’s about equalizing the reward to difficulty ratio.
Do you feel a +15 is as hard as killing 2 mythic raid bosses? That’s what they both take for the same vault chance.
When you have an hour to play and want a 304 do you look at pugging mythic raid bosses and pugging a +15 as having about an equal success chance?