Who can’t do everything be specific
Really then in that case they should just lock the regular talents in once you pick them and if you want to change them then put it at a high cost.
Heck since everyone thinks it should be hard to change covenants lets go 500k gold.
Oh and there is no difference between the covenant abilities and talents if your idea of meaningful choice is what you believe.
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Neither of the classes you mentioned have all of the abilities of other classes. Class choice matters a ton.
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Strawman again lol.
min-maxers are not a group id like blizzard to pander to
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Like we didnt grind neck levels or artifact or soulbinds or whatever traits we will slowly grind like conduits : )
In addition that is irrelevant, if you want X for whatever reason you choose that, if you want y you choose why, you cant have both
Gameplay rotation and flow are about how the class plays not how big numbers you get, if you go to numbers you care about DPS rather than rotation.
So what you are saying the gameplay will feel terrible if you dont get 5 procs per min and instead get 2, getting to use an instant abillity every now and then depending on procs is what you view as gameplay improvement?
No because each spec is its own class, it requires different stats, different gear therefore more effort to the point of being a different class.
Unless you are that ultra lucky that your other spec requires the same stats, same traits
Sure, class choice matters why do Covenant choices need to matter as much as class choices? Are you suggesting that Covenants should also let dps classes heal and tank?
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Stop trying to put words in my mouth with every one of your replies. Just cut the garbage.
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Or you choose one covenant and stick with it as you DONT NEED TO HAVE THE BIS ABILITY FOR ALL CONTENT
Because that is the point of the covenant system, to be a huge choice almost on par to classes
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No it is not and meaningful choice is not just picking one thing.
Meaningful choice is subjective . What you find meaningful is just that for you .
For others it is having the ability to change to play different aspects of the game or being able to change because they do different rolls like your hybrid non pure dps classes.
All people want is to be the best at what they do in the game and you don’t have to be a min/maxer to want that.
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This is getting ridiculous. OP has posted the same thread multiple times now. At this point it’s spam.
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Sounds more like a moba than an rpg to me
A choice like Ion said is about advantages and DISADVANTAGES.
if you are able to switch to X covenant or X talent for a boss because that talent is obviously superior for the situation then you dont have a choice, the choice is made for you because it is obviously superior and there’s no cost for changing it.
Covenants are a choice because you stick to one and you accept that you wont have the best abillity for X type of content yet STILL DO THAT CONTENT JUST FINE.
if you need to have the best ability for X content and refuse to play because you dont have it then you are just bad since all content outside of world first can be done without the optimal covenant.
You clearly have no idea what defines spam, and the fact that mods repeatedly restore my mass flagged op says i am right.
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Why not ?
Is it hurting you if I want to enjoy the game the way i want to ?
What if I want to say roll a shammy and I want to go enhance /heals and I pick a covenant I like but I find their ability is good for only one spec and another covenant is good for the other?
Just make the class abilities into talents .
And I’m not some little kid whining I’m some that after 50 + years knows that options and choice are good for everyone.
I am not saying the choice of how you want to play is invalid but neither is the choice those of us want is either.
To quote the words of the late great Neal Peart
“You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice”
If having to stick with one covenant is meaningful to you then yes it is meaningful , but if being able to change things around for another player is meaningful to them then yes it is meaningful because all meaning choices can not be put into a big glass bubble as this is what meaningful is . Meaningful choices are subjective.
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Never got into them
Yeah, most people hated those grinds, it made things insanely unfriendly if you wanted to play alt characters.
Again you’re the one trying to make this a damage thing.
I personally dislike procs when they get too out of hand. However it’s the synergy between abilities, and this includes proc effects that determine how good or bad a spec feels to play. If the chance for something to proc is too low it feels bad, on the other hand if it’s too high it will also feel bad because of how hectic it feels. If 5 procs per minute doesn’t make it feel good because it’s too much, then if it were lowered to 3 or 4 and felt good I’d be all for it.
Yes every spec requires something different but you haven’t addressed the issue of one character joining multiple Covenants based on spec. You haven’t addressed the story issues or the gameplay issues of it at all.
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I can only infer by what you type, you’re being very nonspecific maybe if you elaborated instead of typing witty one sentence replies there could be an actual discussion.
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Yes, it is hurting this game because the bad and average players who worship min maxers become toxic, tell themselves they are good when they are not simply because they copy the meta build and tell OTHERS what to do and how to play the game and it often leads to toxic attitudes such as 'x class not invited cuz streamers told me they are bad"(Even though x class can easily do said content since its not world first)
Ion has said quite clearly that he wants people to get over the simming mindset where you have to have the best simmed build because many people who do that do not understand it and end up affecting other players who might want to stick to their own build or class that community deludes themselves it is bad for a mythic + 4
In addition when people are FORCED to stick to a covenant(unless they level 4 of the same class) they might realize that THEY DONT NEED THE BEST BUILD to actually do content and realize you dont need to be optimal to do stuff in this game outside of world first.
Where’s the developer quote equating Covenants and classes, please, I’d love to see it.
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Yeah no, from the initial reply you tried to put words in my mouth every time to reframe the discussion to your viewpoint. Not taking your bait. I made my points repeatedly that choice should matter and not everything should be hot swappable. Otherwise there is no real choice just the illusion and you basically have to swap to the optimal thing for every situation; it’s dumb. Just go play an action game this is supposed to be an RPG.
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