Exactly…
10/char
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That’s what we had in wod. Any pug raid leader had full control over loot distribution, including changing loot type during the raid from personal to “Everything that drops off this boss is mine!”. That’s why personal loot in raids was created in Legion.
That sucks, I didn’t know that ML in WoD actually existed. Well the more you know honestly. Glad I wasn’t there to suffer through that ML. But i feel your pain, its not fun when the Raid leader takes everything for themself. It makes things rough for sure for the experience.
So…this makes me 85 bajillion types of crazy.
When the change was made only guild groups could use master loot. So…suggesting that “well just let guilds have it then” has all the same energy as a toddler standing in the middle of the room holding their breath until they get what they want.
Come up with a system that is not transparently easy to abuse that serves the same purpose as master loot and then pitch that. I’m sure you can solve the Gordian Knot the has bedeviled game devs since the earliest coop games that had trading. If you can you’ll be famous.
Reasons why people think ML was removed: In game abuses
More probable reasons why it was removed: Slashing the GM Ticket load.
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More like RNG and the great vault… Trading restrictions for the same reasons. ML was def not removed due to “abuse”. It was metrics, everything is about metrics.
This post is funny… Join a decent and fair guild. ML would be a huge benefit to guilds that don’t take advantage of their members. This is a personal accountability issue not a ML issue.
It was partly in-game abuses that led to a massive ticket overload. The two are not unrelated. This led to the original implementation of personal loot for raiding.
But full removal of master loot in BfA was intended to slow down gear acquisition and progression.
The issue is that there are no requirements for starting a guild. Anyone can do it, including those who have decades of managment experience, those who are incompetent, and those who are outright con men.
Blaming people who got snookered by a con man is not a part of the solution. There definitely needs to be more accountability than there was during the heyday of master loot guild abuse, because there were plenty of times when the guild leader’s married girlfriend did get geared up first.
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it was partly the perception of in-game abuses, which isn’t the same thing.
there are people who submit a ticket every time they lose a roll.
I guess you weren’t playing during wod. There were dozens of threads every day by people who experienced master loot abuse in pug raids.
Definitely not a perception problem.
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Lol same. it’s always this argument. but never ONCE in my many many years of raiding in Vanilla, TBC, and wrath did i experience a raid leader ninja loot.
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i remember it very well. for every 1 genuine loot scam there were 19 “after losing a roll i realized i didn’t like the rules i agreed to when i joined, so it’s a scam”
Go look up the vod of blizzcon where Ion talks about it.
NVM, here you go. A forum thread you might like (or not, a lot goes on in it). With the vod and a timestamp for the Ion’s comments (1:05:24 fyi)
Definitely about people not getting loot due to loot rules.
The problem was never good guilds that did not take advantage of their members. Bad guilds are generally bad in all ways. But even good guilds can run through quite a few people before finding a good fit. All those people put in time and effort and end up with…well hopefully new friends and some good times. But…no gearing progress to help them as they prospect in yet another guild trying to find the one they do fit in.
Master loot blows.
However. I should be able to trade loot no matter what. Even if blizzard thinks it’s an upgrade.
Personal loot is flawed, but master loot is worse
False. I don’t remember a single thread about “I lost the loot roll”, but many many about raid leaders who lied about loot type, who changed loot type during the raid, or who agreed it was going to be MS>OS when they had no intention of fulfilling that promise and knew CS would do nothing.
Or who won the loot roll but didn’t get the loot, and then the raid leader and his buddy who actually got the loot left.
You have an agenda to push here that has nothing whatever to do with what happened during wod with master loot and the pug scene. I’m done dealing with you because there’s no point in arguing with liars.
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oh no i remember those too! that rule was very confusing for people who didn’t understand that “MS” doesn’t mean “the spec you’re playing right now” and that guilds sometimes have people play OS on certain fights for good reasons.
It’s not coming back. Yeah it sucks that it was removed, but it’s time to move on with your lives.
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So…lets have a socially enforced master loot?
I like the idea of a some “wiggle room” when trading within guild groups. Maybe guild raid achievements that open up 5/10/15 ilvl range so that as the raid progresses people become more likely to be able to trade gear. Retains everyone’s chance (such as it is based on loot tables and how much the dice hate you) to gear in the early going and makes it easier to trade later on as you reclear bosses and move on to your progression pulls.
Hrm…this has set my mind to spinning on a new path. Off to make some charts and tables and graphs and other excel nerd stuff (pivot tables ftw people, learn to use and love them).
I’m actually happy with the Loot Council addon… I suggest everyone uses it. I don’t really care about ML anymore… 
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Bring it back for raiding at the very least.
Hilarious how most of the people saying to keep it removed don’t raid themselves.
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Maybe you don’t remember countless Heroic runs in WoD where items were specifically on reserve. Or entire runs where “leather and plate reserved” and you could maybe get a trinket or whatever. People were so desperate for groups, that inevitably they’d join and leave feeling pretty cheated.
Prior to that I had seen the system abused many times, by many guilds, and many people getting butthurt over all sorts of loot issues.
I feel like personal loot is the best way to keep the trolls away, and if people wanna trade their goods (honestly everything SHOULD be tradeable), there shouldn’t be an issue with that. Having something drop higher item level and not usable (bad stats etc.), but you’re unable to trade, is incredibly flawed.
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