The #nochanges slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy

A slippery slope is not necessarily a logical fallacy. Thinking such is itself a logical fallacy.

at the rate blizzard is caving in to streamers ill say 6 months and no im not going to give proof route…lol.

because retail is more than QoL changes. this is a garbage argument as the fundamentals of the games mechanics are worlds apart between retail and classic. adding a dungeon finder isnt going to homogenize every class into essentially being the same.

extremely low intelligence comment.

Well, I want #nochanges+ then! So there Mr. GTFO. I hardly think it would “butchering” the game for Blizzard to flesh out some of the areas they left unfinished.

I disagree about the QoL changes. These are the things which lead to the current retail experience so many players claim to dislike. Nothing is perfect and I would rather deal with the imperfections in classic as is than risk going back down the road to retail.

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I agree with the OP, I mean some things won’t kill the classic experience like barber for example. I think we are all past the point of #no changes anyways with all the changes that has been done, can’t un do them and reset the timer. May as well give us some QOL things. I mean I understand the die hards here but , the deal is it’s already been compromised as Blizz would say. it’s time to maybe see it as a brighter picture of the game because the True reality here is people will get bored, and frustrated and move on.

Some of these things will just add to the longevity of the game as classic and only classic.
Maybe Blizz can add them slowly as we move along. they are a company I am positive that they will start adding things Im sure. If it is successful say in a year, they will start adding things to it for sure. It’s just common sense, just like I stated above, however if the game starts drying up, they may do it sooner then later. I really don’t think this company will keep it truly classic due to obvious reasons, if anyone believes that , they need to get a job in marketing. lol Because it will not sustain itself for long. They will have to add some things to keep the game fun and I have no issue with that, but when you mess with our classes and stuff, oh god Im out. lol.

The problem isnt changes, the problem is, it will never stop, and we will again end up with retail… i was there many many years ago, and no you wont get to destroy classic a second time…

you guys will just keep asking for more and more and more, in other words, its just simplest to say no to everything !..

I agree with everything you have to say with the exception of dual spec. Not having dual spec is an important gold sink, and when there are already people with tens of thousands of gold, you see why gold sinks are important. If we have classic+ in the future which honestly would be good for the game, we’d definitely want more gold sinks but nothing like heirlooms, heirlooms are off the table.

A 50g respec isn’t going to do anything about people having tens of thousands of gold when they make double that an hour and they only have to respec twice a week.

Respec cost is like using a garden water hose against a blazing fire, sure its not going to eliminate the fire but it still is better than not having any water at all.

Eh. It’s more like flicking water off your fingers and then pretending you’ve solved the problem.

If the massive amounts of gold in the economy is your concern, looking to respec costs as the answer to solve that problem is not very wise. Clearly not, since people have those respec costs and still have tens of thousands of gold.

At best, you’ve slowed down the gold acquisition by 100g a week.

“I know the definition of slippery slope, therefore I’m going to shoehorn it into my argument and hope nobody notices I’m wrong.”

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The OP had been using that as a shield to dodge and deflect all counterpoints up until someone pointed out the statement at the very bottom of that page :joy:

When question is “% of Lose - Win” and “does a majority benefit from this?” they should ignore individuals. This is how society works.
Yes you can shove retail to my face with “look at how majority played itself” but it wasn’t majority. It was loud minorities who pushed this game to oblivion. New people who started to play this game started to whine on forums over and over and Blizzards listened to them. THey also Tried to adjust to newer “old” people, who grew up, had less time to play, had families of thier own but still wanted to play the game.
But Classic isn’t the case. Cause classic is a game which should be and I believe will be preserved in near vanilla state. BUT. I don’t believe that it should be stopped at some patch and left alone. It should evolve to it’s final form. Not new expansion, but itself: finished, flourished and done. Right now I don’t see how little fixed bugs, or completed design, can RUIN vanilla experience for the people who have nothing but confusion when they stumble across them. I still can’t understand why people against graphic toggle which gives people who WANT to use it freedom to use it. Since it’s optional for everyone.

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What is with you little beta males?

You act like golem and your precious are under attack when people have different opinions than you do.

It’s a game. Relax a bit.

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Yes it is just a game. One that bothers you so much you feel the need to change it and post about it, yet what, you think you are some kind of chad sitting on the forums debating a video game? If you have no respect for your own hobby thats cool man, maybe go find something up to your standards of what should be taken seriously. Stop wasting your time in a “game” yeah?

Also raging and asking someone to relax is pretty showing of your intelligence tbh. May want to rethink that.

The problem is the “THINGS” we asked for were completely ignored and they added things nobody EVER wanted which lead to the atrocity called BFA.

Are their EGOS to big to listen to the player base a second time around?

That is the real question.

Things always change. This iteration of the game is already different than it was in classic.

I also understand that you are free to like or dislike different things with zero impact on me.

If your gaming experience will be ruined because a hearthstone is 30 minutes, or because items stack differently or your fishing pole had a 30 cast time…i mean I am not sure if I am more sad that you need others to go away that have different opinions or that you are so invested that your life would really be impacted by such things.

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It really depends on what is being discussed. I don’t want you to go away specifically, but more the constant attempt to change the game. Given time it would be interesting to see some changes. For example changing the mats for the ZF event would be cool. Because it wouldn’t be easy to prepare for and essentially nullify the event, it would feel more like what we had before when we didn’t have foreknowledge.

Having foreknowledge changes many things and changing things to negate that would be a welcome change, but on the case of Quality of Life, ease of access, its just the opposite direction of what we would hope for. Your proposed menial ideas are quite different from many of the changes ive seen proposed. Beyond the Hearth im not even sure what the other 2 changes you just asked for actual entail from how you word it. Stack how? 30 cast time of what? idk

None of it has to be conveyed to you, because I am not seeking your approval for anything. But I will try to explain why I have the theories I do.

I want as many people playing the game as possible. Once the initial rush is over you will have a game with very few players in starting zones able to complete the multitude of group quests, unable to afford anything in the auction house, and as such their bar to inclusion has been raised.

At that point the game will cease to grow.

Maybe you don’t care about that? Maybe you think that your gear, your experience somehow means more than others, it doesn’t.

What classic should show us all is how bad many of the changes made to retail have been for the game, mainly level scaling and time gates instead of actual progression.

To really get to an answer here from the blizzard perspective you have to weigh their options. If they truly view classic as an activity to do when bored with retail, that should tell you their course of action.

But if they want to keep the numbers of people who came back to classic, playing classic, you have to realize that it has a very limited shelf life. Classic lasted for less that 3 years before TBC came out. That means it had to change, not out of want, but out of need.

What you or I feel about that is irrelevant. So I place no issue with people who feel differently than I do. I’m happy to have a game with actual power progression not 100% dependent on gear. I am loving the journey right now.

But it should tell you why they eventually made changes, because they had to.

As for my example changes and what others have said, that’s exactly why you shouldn’t make a monolith out of groups of people. Don’t lop me in with people asking for things I have never mentioned, I have no idea of what people want. I only speak for myself.

I have over 500 days played in retail since 2005, but the last 3 expansions have been garbage and I have played less and less. I’m loving this game, but I know for a fact it has to change. So that no change crowd isn’t only wrong, but dumb as well. Things have to change…what they change is what matters.