don’t forget the months (year maybe?) spent under lich king/demon control. all those women and children killed to make abominations, family murdering family and then eating them.
most forsaken prolly felt like they were in the backseat just watching their humanity slip away
This is true, and for what it’s worth I actually commend and can relate to those who are unhappy about the situation. Sylvanas was everything to the Forsaken. Seeing her new model on the Warcraft 3 reforged datamining gives me a bit of sadness I must admit - it was that game that got me into WoW and every time I play through the Forsaken’s rise in the Frozen Throne campaign, I’m going to feel rather depressed. Their narrative started out so well - it continued to go so well, really, until recently. If Calia had come back even as a Forsaken, prior to Sylvanas’ recent actions, I would’ve been dead against her being anyone important. Sylvanas was more than the Forsaken’s political leader - she was a messianic figure. A saviour. Someone who gave them a ‘life’ and a sense of direction when everything and everyone else they knew had abandoned them. Believe me, I get it. I’m mad about what they did to Sylvanas. I don’t like it. But… here we are.
I do have optimism for the future - in part because I’ve always played less blatantly evil Forsaken. In Sarestha’s case in particular - the way I’d describe her would be “well-intentioned extremist” for most of her existence as an RP character. She happily burned Teldrassil, for example, because she had a VERY strong trust in Sylvanas’ care for the Forsaken. She trusted Sylvanas with a zealous devotion… Because she saw her as a saviour of the free willed undead. Ironically it was the breaking of THAT, and the execution of a Forsaken who stood against it, which drove her character to rebel. If Sylvanas hadn’t broken the free-will tenent, I suspect Sarestha would still be on her side, even now. But within her extremism I tried to also capture the compassionate aspects of the Forsaken - despite the role not existing, Sarestha tried to live as a “Paladin” of Lordaeron, even in death. So… I admit my Forsaken, even when arguably evil and dark, is a tad unorthodox.
At the end of the day, we’re all just sharing our opinions here. I have hope for the future in part because I can’t bear NOT to. The Forsaken are my favourite race. I don’t want to just abandon them, and I especially don’t want them to be the Darkspear post-Vol’jin. Leaderless, and forgotten in the lorehole. So in a sense, my attempts at optimism are an attitude of “It’s better than nothing” and I’m trying to find reasons to support it.
But yeah I certainly do commend you and others on this thread for your passion, and I do understand your anger. This situation is far from ideal, even for a crazy unorthodox optimist like me. 
I respectful disagree, but I also respect your opinion too 
Thank you for the detailed counter point that you have made, forgive me please for not posting back, been busy at work etc.
I never read the books about WoW, and to be fair on that I do not consider those to be a true WOW lore ‘bible’ Because why do they not put any of that in game (Money, they want more money and are lazy) So to be fair and honest that could be part of the (My) ignorance.
And also to be fair, when I have a discussion on this topic with guild folks I do ask “Where in game is this…” Nilla wow there was tons of in game books you found that had a lot of the details and things, but Blizzard did get away from such ‘fine points’. Thank you for sharing the parts of your point and saying what book they was in.
Now as for the undead and the lack of emotions etc, Most (broad brush here) of all the classic movies I have seen and books on Vampires to Soth (AD@D Death Knight) nothing but absence of the everyday feelings/emotions we have and are played off into the revenge (as are early wow forsaken) quests and all Undeads are pretty much driven to insanity because of it or have deep issues. I do not disparage you in any fashion if your undeads are not of this ilk as that takes away alot that my “Where in game…” and besides if we all played my way we could just log in and stand around plotting…
Now as for the light half healing point, again if I can borrow from reality here (Being a Christian) I would see the light ‘raising a undead’ something akin to Jesus bringing Lazarus of Bethany back as a Undead (WHY?) (((No not trying to insult someone or begin a religious debate using it as a clear point of comparison)))
Thank you again for your reply I honestly wish Blizzard had invested at least half the thought that people who contributed to this thread into the game story and not knee jerk ‘cool’ response.
It’s more than a stretch, it’s provably non-canon. We see forsaken demonstrate a range of emotions in and out of game.
Forsaken are also one of the most inconsistently potrayed races in the game.
Undead, but can die to poison.
Undead, but being cleaved in half doesnt kill them.
Classic to wotlk is pretty steady. But after that its all over the place
Doesn’t change what I said.
Not at all.
i was really just adding on to what you said.
We see a wide range of emotions, and its due to inconsistencies
Not necessarily a had thing, cause i love the forsaken squad in nazmir
I went back to this thread today after having a couple of thoughts running through my head about this. They’re perhaps too far out, but I’m going to drop them here anyway.
Giving the Forsaken a new leader in Calia Menethil feels racist.
Here’s why I’m saying that. Yes, the Forsaken in Lordaeron started out to be her father’s human subjects for the most part (or we can extrapolate that by assumption). But as of LK and Cata, the Forsaken are demonstrated to have let go of the past. They’re tearing down existing human structures in Lordaeron and replacing them with a new aesthetic that is clearly darker - and more representing of them as a separate race from humans. We see it in Brill, and in new areas in Northrend that they’re not identifying as humans in human towns. While I don’t think that means that there aren’t civilian Forsaken who still carry on with day to day life with a similar feel to their old life (I absolutely do), I think the Forsaken have come together and identify as a people and their own race.
One thing about their new race is that aesthetic. It’s dark, haunting and ominous in appearance. Blizz has been reflecting this all the way back to Vanilla, so this hasn’t been an overnight change, although it has grown. And the Forsaken themselves are not only rotting, but their skin tones are blue, green and purple. Their hair doesn’t look human. Their armor doesn’t fit their bodies as it would a living creature.
So what we have is essentially a different race than humans. Undead humans are a different race with a different look, different culture and different belief system.
Let’s talk about their culture and belief system. Their culture was built around several key happenings:
They died.
They were enslaved.
They broke free.
They were rejected by their former race.
They followed a savior character.
They set up a homeland.
They got revenge.
They began to expand their race.
All of this has shaped their culture and aesthetic. The Forsaken know they now frighten humans. They embraced this in the “scary” aspect of their architecture. Many of them became loyalists to Sylvanas almost to the point that one could argue it was with religion zealotry. They worked tirelessly and systematically to get revenge on Arthas for his betrayal and enslavement.
They present as a different race with a different, darker appearance, culture, goals and beliefs.
Now let’s look at Calia. When she is reintroduced, she’s human. She looks nothing like the people she feels sorry for and wants to rule over/lead. She isn’t part of their race. She isn’t part of their culture. She’s going to step into the role vacated by a savior type character. She’s already tried once to try to “save” the Forsaken, but due to her naivete (could you argue human privilege?), she fails. She fails so hard that she dies and is resurrected (heavy handed symbolism here) as a leader of light. Now her look is even further from the Forsaken than it was. Further, the light typically harms the Forsaken.
The result is that we have a great “light” leader putting herself into a savior role over a different race - one her (former) people oppressed - without knowing and understanding who the Forsaken are, what they want, what they need, what they stand for, what they believe or where they are going. And she hasn’t asked them if it’s what they want. She’s taking that autonomy and choice out of their hands because she thinks she knows better.
If we framed this happening in the real world, it would be identified as racism.
Light savior trope 
I’ll be here all week.
The golden one claims a vacant throne. The crown of light will bring only darkness.
Wouldn’t be a Warcraft story arc if the woman didn’t go insane and kill a bunch of folks.
See, I feel like it’s more than just the savior complex trope here because that can still be within the same race. The story does contains that trope, but it goes further. The parallels with real life racism are hard to ignore if you look at the whole picture.
The idea that Calia can come in and save a people whom she isn’t a part of is patronizing at best. It feels like “light” Calia will want to “civilize” the Forsaken and remove what makes them who they are (do you think she’ll condone vengeance? How about blight?). It’s similar to how people have treated Native Americans, Aborigines, African Americans and other minority races that they consider less fortunate because they’re different, less affluent, etc. Cultural identity is lost as the race is slowly converted to what the new leader considers the norm.
And at this point, it feels like she’s doing it for her own personal catharsis. Calia is acting like an affluent person who just discovered the poor natives needed saving - so she’s going to rescue them with “light” and make everything all better because then she can feel good about herself. In the next expac, I’ll bet she’ll be spouting dialogue about learning to love the Forsaken like they’re lesser.
To be fair, that doesn’t necessarily mean Calia will go crazy and kill people. Just that her taking the throne sets in motion events that lead to “darkness”…
Who am I kidding Blizzard will make her insane and kill people, probably revive Arthas as a Lightforged Undead and Arthas will end up saving us.
Oh Jesus Christ I hate SO MUCH that I could actually see a revived and Lightforged Arthas leading us against Bolvar.
I think I’m gonna puke.
I Calia revives Arthas I will put my children in a shopping cart and push them onto a freeway. I would have no choice!
It is pleasing to see others share the same idea of the Forsaken, I was beginning to think quite a few had gone the “repentant and seeking redemption” route, to “expand the flavour” of the Forsaken. Or some such. I do not pretend to know what the writers are thinking but it appears they wanted to be done with the Forsaken story and are installing Calia to keep Forsaken on a leash.
I, like a fair few others, created Forsaken for the appeal of the Dark and many other reasons already eloquently explained elsewhere by others. This Calia character throws a spanner in the whole works.
I shall wait, as is my Guild and other loyalists, until after Blizzcon to really decide how the RP will go. I do know this character is unrepentant and still worships the Dark Lady.
Personally, I had viewed the Forsaken as a Necessary evil the Horde had in it’s Warchest. The willingness to do the unpleasant stuff one must do to win a war, that was generally what I gleaned from the quests and storylines as I levelled. Yet when Sylvanas started wage actual war, yes, killing civilians, yes using blight, yes to using everything to win, the Horde is suddenly abhorred. Let us not forget we are ALL playing murderhobo’s or did someone level without killing anyone?
So The Dark Lady focused her mind to waging actual war and became vilified to most. And as punishment (in my view) the Forsaken are having leader installed to appease the Alliance.
It is hoped there is a third faction because this character does not fit in the “World of Peacecraft”.
The ugliest thing about Calia is that she’s exactly what we asked for.
We keep talking about the disparity between factions and races, how some races will get far too much lore and representation over others, and how to repair that great gulf.
And this is it.
The Forsaken are overrepresented in WoW and especially in BfA. Not as badly as Orcs or Humans, but they still receive too much attention. Calia is a passive leader who won’t lead them to do anything for the next few expansions, hopefully.
And that’s what fixing this looks like. The Forsaken will be in the backseat for a few expansions and will have to live the same experience that all non-Orc and non-Human races have to live with.
that’s fine, but we don’t want calia in the front seat
Under the wheels would be ideal.
I didn’t want Malfurion, either. Enjoy your new queen.