The new Guild UI and Permissions...yikes (Part 1)

Community General Discussion
4128

I’m not sure I understand where you’re coming from here. It’s not about “check boxes holding a guild together.” It’s about the toolkit for managing a guild being extremely lackluster. For comparison, it’s like being told to tank, but you don’t get a threat increase or defensive abilities. Or being asked to heal, but you don’t get any mana.

Basically, Blizzard expects the guild master to run the guild, but took away tools that we had to actually do it. Blizzard has had a long standing policy that they don’t interfere in guild matters. But apparently, Blizzard is completely ok with dictating what permissions an officer needs to access. (The guild master used to control this.) Blizzard has decreed that all guilds everywhere get the one cookie-cutter officer, and nothing else. (It used to be possible to have multiple types of officers.) Blizzard decided what permissions are withheld from regular members. (Again, the guild master used to control this.) And there’s not a thing that I, as the guild master, can do about it.

Except whine on the forums for two years…apparently…

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4129

Why do you care about that when you can just use discord with easy permissions?

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4130

A GM with strong leadership skills shouldn’t need a bunch of check boxes to run a guild. This change, in no way, should break a strong guild or good leadership.

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4131

Yesuna, all through this thread people have made detailed posts WHY they need these permissions to be granular rather than all-in-one. It basically boils down to not everyone does things the same way, nor should they have to. One-size-fits-all does NOT work for guilds. It’s got nothing to do with “strong leadership” or “check boxes”.

If you’re not going to bother reading the thread and seeing the exact reasons why the permissions need to be broken up, you can’t effectively argue in favor of this unintentional change. Honestly, I don’t know why you’re defending something that Blizzard themselves admitted was a mistake. It makes you look like a total brown-nose.

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4132

Slow down there Brah…let’s let everyone express their thoughts here in an open and honest manner.

There’s no way in hell someone is going to take the time to read the 4k posts from this thread, let alone the 1k from the old forums. This form of rhetoric that you consistently engage in is demeaning and unnecessary. Let’s focus on the point being made instead.

I run the only guild leader community on Elune/Gilneas server. I can definitively speak for all the guild leaders there that this has not been an issue for us. I helped start this thread and was the only person that got a direct response from a Blue on the old thread. Blizzard knows I’m using their “new” communities system not eschewing it, and I think that’s the main reason I got a response. Thanks to our early attention from a Blue, we got a reversion in one month: the mute status was returned. I called it a day at that point and moved on in victory. I understand you all are after more. I get it. With 4k+ posts here, trust me, everyone gets it.

It’s fine if you guys want a reversion. No one is telling you that you don’t have a right to try and get a reversion. Just let everyone else come in and post equally and stop being threatened by one or two posts that disagree with your point of view. After all, as you guys always say, (even though some of you claim it’s not important…sigh) it adds to the post count and bumps your thread. You’re welcome. :innocent:

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4133

Not threatened at all. I was calling someone out for being dismissive of people’s real problems with the guild permissions.

I totally understand that the guilds in your specific guild leader community on your specific server seem to be having no issues with the change. That’s great. But you and your guild leader community do not speak for all GM’s across all servers.

It’s fine to say things are working for you. It’s not fine to say that because things are working for you, everyone else should pipe down. (Not saying you said that, just that some have.)

My biggest beef right now though, is that Ion said they were working on fixing this, and since then there’s been complete radio silence. That’s a bigger problem (to me) than the guild issues in the first place. If they have no intention of fixing the issue, don’t lie to us and say they’re “working on” it.

That’s indicative of a systemic problem in the entire culture at Blizzard that’s a lot bigger than one issue in one game. It’s not a good sign for the future of WoW. And that’s something we all should be concerned about.

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4134

You have a very selective memory at best.

What you did was get upset and start trolling this thread when nearly everyone posting here on this thread at that time, rejected Blizzard’s “suggestion” as well as your own personal urging that we move the thread over to the “it’s a bug” section of the forums where you yourself had actually started that new thread.

The one that almost no one ended up posting on.

Except you.

(If anyone cares to go look, everything said above, it is all right here. This is not the first time this same topic has been brought up and covered here if they want to go searching)

The problems with Yesuna’s post:

is not that she/he disagrees with the majority of posters here, but that they seemingly have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about and have not tried in the slightest to get even a vague understanding about what being covered here on this thread for nearly two long years.

Cheheals. You claim:

You’re right in my opinion. Not many are likely to go read all of that.

The fact is, they don’t have to. (Although skimming it a bit would do wonders for the level of understanding expressed. ie: zero)

Or, alternately. As it happens I in fact posted a recent recap here for Yesuna themselves not long ago on May 17th (in fact it is post number 4002) and as of this writing, it’s only a matter of scrolling up slightly.

Said recap post contains multiple examples (quotes) from over the last two years from many Gm’s from all sorts of guilds explaining exactly what this post is all about!

The fact is, if someone is going to post an opinion anywhere and be taken seriously, they should at the very least skim the topic they want to put forth an opinion on. (Or maybe read the reply given to them)

Otherwise they are very likely to end up looking plain silly…

I find it amazing / perplexing (or something) that you keep coming back here long after your self perceived “victory”

Because you keep coming back to this thread since then always saying:

but have never once explained how you worked around the issue, or had a single guild leader from your realm back up your claims even after having been pointedly and specifically asked to do so many multiple times here.

Thanks! We’re so happy to have your approval :innocent:

I wont presume to speak for everyone.

However, I am reasonably certain I can say: “No one here is threatened by posts made by someone who apparently doesn’t try in any way to understand the basics of whats being discussed”

In my own personal opinion, since you obviously felt the need to defend a post that is so clearly out of touch, I have to wonder how much you ever really understood what this thread is truly all about.

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4135

Nearly two long years and guilds are still around. Those GM’s are somehow surviving without a few extra check boxes. Somehow they have kept those guilds alive, even throughout the people who have quit this expansion. Check boxes are not a leadership quality, and a strong guild needs strong leadership. Checking a box for someone to be allowed to change the MotD shouldn’t be destroying any guild. If these permissions have destroyed your guilds then you might have bigger issues other than check boxes.

4136

Do you have the exact statistics on how many guilds have folded in those two years, the reason(s) why they folded, the number of new guilds that have sprung up, the number of old guilds that are basically dead, the number of old guilds that have adapted with no issues, the number of old guilds that have adapted with great difficulty, the number of old guilds with completely new membership so they don’t really count as an “old” guild, or any other actual facts to support your argument that the “strength” of guild leadership is all that matters?

You honestly have no idea how every other guild works or how they’ve adjusted (or not). You seem to think that any guild that isn’t exactly what you envision a guild should be doesn’t have a right to exist. The fact that there are many different ways to play this game and many different purposes a guild can fulfill doesn’t appear to be on your radar at all.

It’s also a fact that if the permissions were broken up tomorrow, it won’t affect any of the guilds that have no problem with the all-in-one permissions. So why do you care at all if the permissions are returned to their previous granular state? What exactly are you arguing for? That your way is the only way and tough toots to anyone who thinks differently?

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4137

It’s not a secret that in order to have a strong guild you need strong leadership. That’s how it works. I’m not sure why this is up for debate.

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4138

What, specifically, do you mean by “strong guild?”
Why do all guilds have to conform to your expectation(s)?

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4139

You started said “debate” about “strong guilds” :roll_eyes:

In any case, why are only “strong guilds” (whatever those actually are to you specifically) allowed to exist in your world?

Is your world only about your own personal way of playing the game?

Yesuna has a thread where he/she is trying to defend thier way of playing Wow. ie: multiboxing: Multiboxing positivity - #3 by Stabs-moknathal because

Which apparently often results in:

Oh the irony.

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4140

They aren’t, weak ones can exist as well. Guilds with weak leadership shouldn’t expect to thrive though. A GM with poor leadership skills shouldn’t be upset when their guild falls due to members leaving for stronger and more direction oriented guilds.

Try staying on topic here, going wildly off topic is a great way to get a thread locked. I’m sure after 4,000 posts people don’t want this thread getting locked down.

A guild that thrives, has a strong membership core, a guild that does stuff together with a purpose. None of these things can happen without strong and dedicated leadership. This is a GM issue, not a check box issue.

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4141

I think we need to get back on track with the purpose of this thread, which is to speak to the neutering of guild permissions when Blizzard turned guilds into glorified communities.

This change affects guilds across the spectrum, from the most hardcore to the most casual. I was doing a lot with the iterative guild permissions. It gave my folks decent incentives and rewards - many of which were all ganged into “officer” and essentially turning the role of officer into a community moderator, which literally no one asked for.

Ideally, Blizzard should just roll back the change so guilds at least have their original configuration options. From that point we can move forward on how to enhance the guild experience. That said, I can think of a few things that are outside of the scope of guild permissions I would like to see included.

  1. Upping the maximum membership count to 999 per server. For guilds like mine, where everyone loves their alts, it is really easy to hit cap, especially with all the allied races. Since my guild is on a connected server, the cap for my guild should account for both Kargath and Norgannon (or 1,998 members total).
  2. Cross realm guild membership. Frankly, we are well beyond the point where siloed realms should still be a thing. Blizzard should wrap up full cross-realm support and allow cross-realm membership.
  3. The return of guild perks. While this had been abused in the past (with players creating high pop guilds to grind perks, then kick everyone and sell the guild for gold (or in the case of a few players real money) the benefits still vastly outweigh the risks. Having guilds be gameplay was, and remains a good idea, especially when coupled with a guild hall (something Blizzard has the technology to do now).
  4. Guild halls: Imagine having a hall off the main building in Stormwind or Orggrimar. There are doors you can’t get through but one you can. The walls are populated by randomly generated guild banners, with your guild banner on the door you can use. inside are the trophies of all the kills your guild has achievements for. Up on a dias is a guild board - guild leadership can populate the board with a number of bounties, procedurally generated by Blizzard - kind of like a cross between a mission table and the war board, and could be anything from material bounties, world boss kills, mini-quests. Guild members can choose to do those quests for rewards.

In any event, the first goal is to just get our original permissions back. That shouldn’t be too hard to do. The rest we can discuss.

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4144

This is a fairly good definition, but “strong membership core” is vague. I won’t ask you to define that though because it’s very clear you believe there are only two types of guilds, “strong” or “weak.” This is a view with which I vehemently disagree.

Different guilds exist for different reasons and have different goals. Some are simply social. Some are for alts. Some are designed around common interests of the members. Some focus on PvP. Some are raiding guilds. There are more types of guilds than I can list. Not all of them need “strong” leadership to fulfill their purpose and “thrive”, but none of them would suffer if the guild permissions were broken up again.

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4145

Members that serve purpose with each other, for various reasons. Members that serve purpose to the guild. Members that are active. Members that share the guild ideology. Those are what traits make a strong membership core.

Unless, of course, you think a strong membership core is just inviting randoms who never speak to each other, never do anything together, and are only there for a cool guild name or as a temporary guild until they find a better guild.

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4146

Agree

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4147

On a lonely hill of broken promises, fading memories and desperate dreams, she stands. She raises her banner and stands firm.
RESTORE GUILD PERMISSIONS !
FIGHT!
FIGHT TO THE END!
STAND AGAINST THE EVILS OF HOMOGENIZATION!

Two years have gone by, and guilds still suffer.
Never surrender!

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4148

Hey… look what’s still broken…

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4149

I haven’t been able to change my forum avatar for a while now. I just get a busy signal when I click “change character”. Am I the only one? (Probably. Could just be my internet or something.)

Anyway, you can pretend I’m a human rogue for now, chiming in to say I really wish we had some more word on this. While I truly want the permissions back, if they have no intention of fixing this, I wish they’d say so. Thanks!

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