Also according to Warcraft logs most people play with the same talent builds
I mean, if we want to go full tangent, Shapiro’s arguments don’t exactly hold up well when brought back under the speed limit.
Let’s say you reintroduced gems and sockets back into the game. What’s the criteria for rewarding them. Free for all, or rewards for content cleared.
It’s a gimmicky meta. Blade Flurry plus Between the Eyes and that’s about it. That’s why you see rogues being Shroud caddies in MDI, while the BM Hunters and Unholy DK’s get all the credit.
What I’m saying is what people want to be rewarded for is different.
People want a competitive game with balance.
People also want their gear to make them feel more powerful in things like PvP.
Those are divergent goals. A competitive game that is balanced means player skill will determine the winner.
Being rewarded with “big dick DPS” for a big drop means the content isn’t balanced but rewards not player skill but beating the “game” or “system”.
If everyone has the same toolset and things are flat and balanced then skill rules the day.
If you are “rewarded” with a big drop that will carry you in PvP then systems rule the day.
Why should someone be punished in PvP for having worse gear but not be punished in Mythic for choosing the wrong convenent?
Agreed. I would argue high performance is and should be relative. We should all be competing against ourselves to improve our game - if that’s our own objective.
And that’s fine, doesn’t mean that Heroics is as all-or-nothing like Mythic is.
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There’s a pretty big line between guilds that do and don’t make it 12/12m this tier for example. Firstly it’s not on the individual, it’s on 20 individuals, the ability to find one another and the capability and great leadership to get there.
There are a ton of people that play this game that don’t want to or just lack the time to get to that point which is more than fine, there is lfr/norm/heroic and any # of keys they can do, it’s about pushing yourself to your limit and completing content, not getting carried or buying it as far as I’m concerned yet most people feel the content should be easy as lfr to where you can afk and get rewards, participation rewards are disgusting to me, why even play if all you do is lfr. I know there are some people that only do lfr and no offense to you but I’d be bored out of my mind, same goes for those that only pet battle which I’ve met a few.
I’m not trying to say you shouldn’t have fun in the way you want to have fun but I disagree that the content should change for the player, the player should adapt to the content as long as it’s reasonably tuned correctly unlike fetid at the start but that’s on blizzard.
So I just don’t get to enjoy the main system of the expansion then? Leveling two of every class I want to play so that I can have one in the “good covenant” and another in the covenant I actually want to play seems like a terrible way to try to sell a game.
I play on an RP server for a reason, I enjoy building a story around my character and experiencing the game from their point of view. I also enjoy not being an anchor and respecting the people I play with enough not to purposely gimp myself.
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Usually I’d agree, min maxxing is toxic. However, in the current state of GD min maxxing usually means just picking the obviously optimal talents over the obviously inferior talents. So I disagree, #pulltheripcord.
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Play the covenant that gives you best performance because you’re playing for the best performance. Again, the answer is there. It’s a player issue and not a gaming one.
So you RP, but you play for performance? That seems like a contradiction of terms. Even if that wasn’t the case, how can your character not pick the best Covenant for performance?
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My feral is going night fae and I will do dungeons on occasion and raid on occasion and do a lot of world content and farm a lot. I don’t have a problem with covenants other than they are a make work project and progressing them is boring and tedious.
You are speaking for people who do very specialized content in a very specific way.
If they removed pvp today I wouldn’t care.
As far as skill over gear in either piece of content, gear is the only meaningful reward in my opinion, I couldn’t care less about my Cutting Edge achievements, the mounts and mog are important to me as well.
Me personally if I was to tune the gear in this game I’d make a 20~ ilvl gap between brackets from normal/heroic/mythic, I would remove lfr because it’s an afk fest for free rewards you can afk through, if you want to experience the story go do normal, it’s almost the same difficulty and you can’t afk or at least the majority can’t.
I would 1 of 2 ways tune pvp gearing, either make it a static system so you could go into with a 400 ilvl and be competitive with 475 ilvl players and it be based off of skill, the only requirement would be that you have a weapon/trinkets and armor equipped no matter how bad it is.
The second one would be how it is now but in both tuning situations firstly pvp hasn’t been tuned very well in a very long time, they need to fire the team that’s currently in charge and get some people that actually give a crap, it also shouldn’t take forever to kill someone like rdruids or other examples like them.
But for both I can see tuning being pretty difficult but it’s clearly gone crazy this last expansion or two so it’s hard to determine a perfect system.
As far as pve content I’m 100% in support of higher ilvl gear being better than lower ilvl gear, it makes you motivated to get better to acquire it, although it may not be the reason for everyone to pve it is for me and I’m sure other people. It’s literally the only reward you get other than some worthless achievement and possibly the mount, obviously group progression is enjoyable and fun to do but I like having stuff after doing it. Which shouldn’t be surpassed by an rng box like the weekly cache or visions with guaranteed corruptions.
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Blizzard has been punishing players that desire to alt spec for a few expansions now. I’m sorry that I feel the urge to play ret occasionally, or heal as our group needs to. It’s why I have played my pally since Cataclysm.
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Bro, I just want to pve and pvp. Your true min maxxers are going to be sticking with the covenant that is the best for the content they are currently in overall. They won’t have to switch like maniacs. Meanwhile people that just casually do pve and pvp can’t even switch to a good pvp covenant build for more than a week. And that’s at the cost of your pve build.
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Unholy dks are a gimmicky meta. The world’s best UHDK is still #200 something. Outlaw is far from gimmicky.
But not to drown out the other conversations - I know you’ve got a lot going on back and forth, so thank you for engaging me.
In my opinion if you play like that you aren’t in a bracket to where it matters, play how you want with those like minded, as far as being locked to one covenant we’ll have to see the finished product and whether or not they change it in the first 6 months.
Can you not do that in Shadowlands?
inb4 “BuT dIfFeReNt AbIlItIeS aRe GuD oN sOmE sPeCs”
Which is part of the choice and decision making.
Give feed back on which ability you gravitate towers to be more useful for all specs. Maybe if you guys put effort into actually giving constructive feedback on abilities within your covenants we’d have bigger changes and better tuning right now.
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I don’t know about all you, but I can’t wait to be right about covenants just like we were right about azerite gear when it first came out at launched. Trash systems stay in the game because blizzard insists, and that leaves a very bad taste in everyone’s mouth for a majority of the expansion as a result.
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The issue isn’t that some abilities are good on some specs, its that some of them are literally (not being hyperbolic) useless in different situations.
The beta forums are full of un-acknowledged feedback. Both the Class and Covenant ones.
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