It can happen, but to be fair, if that run you’re referring to was the 7 TD, having a 2000iO prot warrior tank with TD and 2100iO dps definitely helps.
I do agree with you that there will be folks who push content amidst nerfs. And that meta is definitely not needed to have fun, to engage one’s brain, and to push their own cutting edge. Heck, I main prot paladin, a decidedly off-meta tank for keys and I’m having a ball.
I agree the normal ways of getting things done are going to be make your own group, play with friends or find a guild. Typically normal and heroic guilds don’t have high standards and don’t care that they’re carrying people, the closer you get to mythic they will I’m sure but there are hundreds if not thousands of guilds that are stuck on heroic every tier/expansion, the only time they really ever step into mythic is for the freebie bosses like wrath/maut and skitra, eventually hive/raden and maybe the dog or w/e. It’s kind of a joke to do the first 6 on mythic for a decent heroic guild to move into although the further you go the more individual responsibility.
Individual responsibility is the main issue now that I think about it, if you have a dozen if not hundreds of others that can do the activity you want to do but are getting declined from that should be the one and only answer you should need to get better and get up to par with them, it’s a joke and has been a joke to gear up in legion and especially bfa which has been the worse of it.
The problem is that it’s not just a divide of “casuals” and “hardcore” but what the game SHOULD be. Even the “hardcore” can’t agree on what that should look like.
It’s a bit like the hubbub about gems not increasing stats in PvP last week. If that was intentional on Blizzard’s part it would be to level the playing feild so that PvP is more “competitive” and you are rewarded for player skill rather than being carried by gear. Folks are upset though because it doesn’t feel good and they want their differences “loadout” to give them an edge.
When it comes to Raiding or some high level keys though they want the ability to have an “open toolset”. So that it isn’t grinding or covenant choice that defines success but their skill.
So even without mentioning casuals I think the “elite” need to decide if they want the differences in their success be in choices and content made long ago to help them feel different and rewarded(like gems on gear in PvP causing huge DPS spikes) or being flat and the same level so that your choices in the moment and skill drive the day(like skill and covenant swapping in Raids).
But that’s actually misleading.
The tank was a bit over-geared, but he embellished on it an pulled big, causing our healer to have multiple heart attacks. But if it was a normal tank making normal pulls, we as a group would’ve still made the time limit in a +7.
Alright I’ll break my list down
This system is bad for people who enjoy M+
You maybe be forced into situations where you are actively forced to find someone from X covenant to get the buffs
Some of the abilities for classes provide no real enhancement for PvE (mirrors of torment, mind games)
This system is bad for people who enjoy PvP
Balance is already a mess and if we have something over performing here it will be amplified in pvp
Some of the abilities are just not suited for PvP (see night fae DK ability)
The difference between best covenant and worst covenant between two classes will decide the fate of some games
This system is bad for people who raid
Same issues as M+, I think this one may some how survive as the least impacted,
This system is bad for people who do more than one form of content
I’m a rogue, the night fae ability lets me get an extra stealth, this is amazing for sub - however this ability can’t be used in open word because it will reset mobs - this means I can’t use my covenant ability in torghast. Same applied for the venthyr ability on an outlaw rogue
Some abilities are far better for one form of content then another nercolords DK ability is really good for pvp, nightfae is really bad for pvp
This system is bad for casuals that want to see all the story
Have to reroll 4 times at least, however this is the least of my concerns
This system is bad for people who experiment with builds
With conduits and legendaries there are some amazing builds you can pull off, the downside of this is if I want to fully experience what I can do it will require 4 of my class to get the most testing done
This system is bad for people who play different specs with in the same class
Venthyr and nightfae pair really well with assass and sub, but not to well with outlaw - I wouldn’t pick these abilities on outlaw because I would get limited value out of it
Same applies to many classes, like shaman specifically and most hybrid classes
This system lastly is bad for die hard min maxers
We all know the reasons I don’t need to go into it
There you go; that’s a list of issues people have with the currently system
Doesn’t sound like you understood what was going on, gems were reducing the amount of damage you did in pvp when you zoned in and you took more damage as well, that’s clearly a flaw on blizzards side. What is the point of farming sockets which take 5 visions clears so around an hour lets say and gemming that gear if it’s just going to make it worse.
The rest I’m not sure what you mean, if you mean the content should be rewarding instead of what they’re now which are participation rewards that don’t require any skill then yeah sure, as far as the covenants go we’ll have to so, being locked to one covenant especially if there are benefits to one or the other when it comes to pvp/m+/raiding I can see being locked to one being an issue in the long term of the game yes.
It isn’t a need, it’s a want. I want to play the covenant I like while not being locked into a trash ability “just because”. Warrior banner is looking all kinds of busted, 50% attack speed for 30 seconds would be good by itself, but it doesn’t just affect the warrior, it affects their whole group too. It’s also locked behind maldraxxus which is a covenant I couldn’t care less about.
This system doesn’t affect the people who want to commit to one covenant either way, but it very negatively affects the people who value their performance. Some people are just the type of person to want to “stick it to the elitists” when they don’t have a dog in this fight.
the problem with this is that it wasn’t not just buffing you, it was negatively impacting you. So lets say you go into a fight with a gun and the other guy brought a gun to. Now lets say you bought special ammo that is supposed to make them harder hitting but ended up actually softening them up.
I think thats what was going on at least.
Are gem sockets considered min-maxing?
Is it just me or do the threads condemning one group as toxic typically start from people who hate “Min-maxers”?
Edit: Can’t remember the last time I saw a post from a Famed Slayer saying hardcore casuals that Blizzard focuses on are the issue.
I agree, just taking into account the teleport, that could be very useful to skip packs in m+. I don’t know if it is currently but I could see how that’d be broken so then groups if they intended on using that skip they’d require people to be that covenant to join. I’m sure if there’s a meta like this the top 20% will go for it and ignore the other covenants, tbh they should just make all the covenant abilities the same but with different visuals or something and make the only reason to choose a covenant cosmetic and for mounts/pets as far as I’m concerned.
Technically I guess, I remember back in the day you were judged by what gems/enchants slots you had empty and were usually removed, if it isn’t static on the gear at the time you receive it I would consider it min maxing because you’re putting in extra amount of time/effort to get the gem which in turn gold/farming and time to acquire it and 15-30 minutes per vision and it takes 5 so lets say an hour ish depending on your skill/experience etc.
But then that’s a player issue, not a game issue.
If a player wants to follow the trend, that’s their choice, but that choice has a caveat. The game offers you an alternative, but if you value efficiency over fun or find being super-efficient fun, then your choice is already made.
People who value their performance will always choose the path of least resistance. That’s their choice. It’s not the game forcing them into that path.
It’s usually the baddies no pun intended by your guild name 
that typically have an issue although they’re the ones most catered to they just don’t realize it.
Lashing out a large group of people you don’t interact with or know anything about seems pretty toxic.
Like, skimming through this thread, was hilarious that the topic started as “Debate ME!” and OP was calling for blocks on people from talking.
I think you’ll find that people gravitate towards meta specs because they increase performance
High performance is fun
The healer was 411 ilevel. They might have even had heart attacks in a mythic 0.
I have no doubt that you could time a 7, but those two warriors were most likely instrumental in achieving that. Also, outlaw rogue is meta. The third and fourth highest dps iOs worldwide are rogues.
IKR I love these forums because of those types of people, it makes it so much sweeter even if you don’t knock some sense into them it’s still entertaining to watch them make themselves look bad when logic is brought up over their feelings and I’ll quote ben.
Facts don’t care about your feelings, truth here and in life.
For some people. Other people find high performance in choices that aren’t meta also, and they can still clear Heroic Raids and Mythic +15 Keys.
According to Warcraft logs, most people don’t even complete a full Mythic clear. I’m sure more people make attempts, but that number is still pretty small.