tons of people who will never even step into a heroic raid or +10 still min max, people want to be as strong as possible even if it’s only at thier level of play. Its the nature of mmos
This basically never happens. It’s much more likely that an “I play how I want, deal with it” player responds to gentle suggestions like “hey, are you using X before the big damage goes out?” with a string of insults and a forum thread about how toxic the min-max meta elitist community is.
4 Likes
Yeup. I’ve had people with severe performance issues (we’re talking incapable of pulling weight in a normal raid) who, when confronted about the issue, provide nothing but a litany of excuses and justifications.
I’ve had people get into shouting matches when I politely offered to talk to them a bit about logs for “daring to tell them how to play their spec”.
I’ve had (and in the more casual groups I run with for fun, am currently having) people who just don’t get that performance is a measure of your time spent outside of the weekly guild raid hours, and yet still want to raid.
There’s a reason I joined a Mythic guild as a member rather than trying to set up my own, and that’s because the headache from Normal/Heroic guilds more than soured me towards the idea of running a Mythic group.
People have been outed repeatedly in the forums after starting threads doing just the sort of thing I related.
Some clueless players will contact you after they are declined, as they are unaware that they are unqualified, because NOWHERE IN THE GAME CAN A PLAYER FIND AN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION “How am I doing?” If they are rude, you should block them.
When you see forum threads where elitists are trashing casuals for things like not wanting LFR to be removed with comments like “This doesn’t concern you, you’re not a mythic raider so shut up”, do you think, “That player deserved to be trashed, therefore I am obligated to trash him to make the world right again”?
nobody who clears mythic when it’s relevant cares about lfr one way or the other
Back in MoP, I got yelled at by a brewmaster with cloth gear in 3 slots and intellect neck because I dared to suggest that BoK should be used more than 3 times in a 7 minute fight, and that Guard/Expel Harm weren’t optional abilities. I dropped group, queued up 45 minutes later, and he was still there wiping the raid on the same boss.
3 Likes
That’s the problem most people that complain about toxicity are in fact complaining about elitism and in the same turn it’s usually them that’s the issue they just don’t realize it or want to accept it either. Not worth the time to deal with them but it sure is entertaining.
Look, i’ve seen this argument a million times.
I don’t raid mythic, i don’t do high keys, i don’t do rated pvp, but it bleeds into everything else regardless, so when i’m required to perform the equivalent of at least purple parses for a normal raid, and believe me it happens a lot outside of the high-end bubble, it becomes a problem.
I’m not talking about changing the system, or catering to some players, i don’t care anymore.
This is the reason i stopped raiding and m+ entirely. I’m now doing exactly that, playing how i want, gearing and setup how i want, but by doing that the community lost a raider and dungeoneer, and not trying to pat my back, but according to those who i’ve played with, a good tank and dps.
Min-Max is something for people with time and energy to dedicate to that, and honestly i don’t have that, i just want to have fun. It was supposed that normal was the raiding for me, but unless i find a guild that can do that (without bashing their heads against a wall hundreds of times) and says “done, now to wait for the next raid” i can’t play the content, and honestly i have yet to find a guild like that.
2 Likes
that’s super cool dawg
it’s almost like others enjoy other things than you
weird
2 Likes
Most people who play this game min-max to an extent.
If you’ve ever asked yourself what does more damage, or what’s best for what you’re doing, you are min-maxing.
I don’t think min/maxers are toxic (though some certainly can be).
It’s a perfectly normal way to play the game.
I do think they tend to be a very vocal minority on these forums however. And that occasionally Blizzard will mistake their feedback for most players feedback.
Which is rarely the case.
No offense but I’m sure we’ll survive without ya, that’s the point, unless you can be competitive enough for the bracket you’re trying to join they typically won’t take kindly to people that aren’t putting in the same amount of time/effort/research.
Your explanation/story is perfect tbh, in your situation with the little bit of info you gave and from most conversations I see on here is people over reaching into a bracket or difficulty they seem to be unprepared to be in, it’s like the people that complain 15s are too difficult, well you don’t need to be doing 15s only, there are 2s-14 keys and this is a progression oriented game. People tend to expect to be doing the end game content right out of the gate without bettering themselves, this may be easier for some than others but there is still a progression system that needs to be progressed through, not skipped, that’s what carries are for. So unless I’m getting paid I’m not carrying.
1 Like
If you want to time a 15 you usually need DPS that’s pulling 55k DPS overall. Which means bursting in the 150k to 200k range. That’s not min maxing, that’s just the reality of the challenge.
The only thing that’s toxic here is you showing up to class without a pencil and paper and then loudly blaming everyone else for being prepared.
7 Likes
LOL I love this explanation, perfect.
Not many of us do.
Not a min-maxer, but I have already started to see in my guild some officers telling each class what covenant they need to choose ‘‘or you will be benched pretty early’’ (their words, not mine). This is a fairly casual guild so it will probably will be even worse on the more hardcore guilds, not to mention on M+ (Where yes, I do start my own keys, but I can’t always get the key Im looking for so there is a need to join another group) where there you also have to compete with RaiderIO and thousands of dps, the last thing you need its yet another filter =/
2 Likes
Atm choosing a bad covenant is bench worthy. It probably won’t be as bad balance wise on release, but it is pretty bad atm.
Sorry, i don’t want to come as saying “you should feel bad for losing me in high-end”, if it came in like that it’s not what i meant.
What i mean most is that the dedication for competitive content is perfectly fine, just because i casually jog some days i’ll never say i should be able to participate in the olympics like those guys who spent training 24/7, but what i experience is the guys next to me telling me i should have -this- training equipment and -that- activity plan because X marathon runner does it, and if i say i’m not interested i just become segregated or looked down on because “why am i not taking it seriously?”.
On a personal level, the problem in this situation for me is that raids are essential part of basic story progression in the game, and for my level of actual play it’s supposed that normal is for me, but i’ve had so many bad experiences with pugs and no decent guild is content with normal, so i’m kinda stuck. And LFR is a literal nightmare that killing one boss takes hours and a rotation of like 7 different groups because of people rage quitting cause the boss didn’t die in one pull.
This whole thing is a vicious circle where every tier of players is complaining about the other and it will never end. And honestly it’s sad.
You can always make your own groups if you don’t like other people making their groups with their rules.
There should be enough players in the same case as you to form a group right? But I won’t bet on the sucess of it, there’s a reason why people “gatekeep”.
2 Likes
Makes you wonder why it’s so hard for anti-min maxers to find groups if there’s such a sizeable amount of you that represent the “99%.”
Maybe the anti min-max crowd is less than the 1% than those they keep attacking? Otherwise, they should have plenty of groupd and guilds to join to avoid the evil min maxers
3 Likes
Okay, you’re a mage. Ven’thyr looks to be useless in PVE. Why wouldn’t a raiding guild bench a mage who chooses Ven’thyr since it doesn’t benefit the raid?