Just one more post please!!! I’d just like you to tell me you weren’t carried through m+ 
Did you notice that every M+ I went I had either tank or healer spec?
How do you get carried in M+ as tank or healer? Roflmao. You can’t be serious.
Side note, how could a sane person realistically debate with a person of very low IQ?
What was I thinking. Bye. 
We are getting off track here with this, but I mention it only for this fact. Assuming this same scenario were to happen in SL, it would apply to both heroic and M+ even if the ilevel wasn’t changing.
Yes, but the difference is in Mythic raiding, you now only get 1 chance a week at extra loot in the box instead of being able to bonus roll certain bosses. Also, in order to get the full three options of 226, you need to full clear the entire raid on mythic. As we both know, the number of people clearing 15’s each week to get their max options will happen much sooner than people having 3 options of raid options (not accounting for those that do both content, but that’s a separate discussion of how that changed gearing). I will say this, since I wasn’t a fan of it in WoD. You should not be able to get loot items in your weekly box from bosses you didn’t kill on that level. I.e. if I kill 6 bosses on mythic, I shouldn’t get drops offered from the last four.
In May, you were ~4 months into the patch. I think we can both agree 8.3 has been the most skewed patch when it comes to gearing, content, etc. that it really should be discarded. If you want to talk about before that, then sure. But you as you mentioned, back then you could be mythic geared with WF / TF and never stepped into the mythic raid. Forget 20’s being harder than mythic raid since rewards stop scaling at 15, the actual rewards of spamming M+ at 15’s could potentially outweigh raiding would have put raiding at the unfair advantage since you could only do those once a week whereas nothing was stopping you from chain running 15’s.
I would say yes, because even before the SL changes, most BiS lists had a mix and match of raid / m+ gear.
I would honestly like to know how you pushed keys to begin with. It’s been a system since Legion and the end of dungeon rewards were, at best, heroic raid quality level, and that was only something that happened toward the end of BFA.
Absolutely nothing has changed in regard to how you’ve been playing. They didn’t remove some system that gave you boat loads of mythic raid gear to push keys with.
We’ll be doing mythic raid progression in the same gear you’re going to be pushing keys with. It’s the start of the expansion, dude. We’re all going to be gearing up over time and progressing.
Eventually, like every other patch since the inception of M+, you will be pushing the keys you want to push using the system you’re using. You don’t have to worry about azerite gear anymore, so if anything, it’s even better.
But that’s the nature of the beast, man. I’d love for Raid, PVP and M+ to be entirely independent of each other at every level, but I don’t think they’d risk that move, or you’d see less people running your keys and/or we’d see less people interested in progressing raiding.
You wanna push keys, you’re probably always going to have to raid a little. I wanna push raid prog? I’m gonna have to do my keys, even though either of us would rather not do so.
To us, the gear at the end of the dungeon only matters for a couple of weeks, tops. Heroic quality, 5 ilvls lower, whatever. It has never truly mattered for what we prefer to do for progression.
I honestly don’t understand why the end of dungeon gear matters at all to people who push keys.
LOL!!!
How can a healer or tank be carried 
A) damage is so low below 15s this late in the season that a healer often isn’t even required
B) not much tanking required when your full group of 475 players deletes the packs you pull in 10 seconds
Dude I sold +15 carries. We would go a tank and 3 dps and leave the guy we were carrying at the entrance, we didn’t even bring a healer
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Titanforging
Corruption
Both of those are now gone
See that line of thought brings another problem. Say I only do world quests and that’s all I do, does it mean I should be entitled to get mythic quality gear? Not only are you devaluing mythic raiding, but you also push the raiders to also do that other content that they’ve no interest in.
Why should you be exempt of running other content but they have to do every content?
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If those WQs are as hard as mythic raid bosses, then absolutely.
A +20 is harder than half the mythic raid, why in SL is it going to reward worse gear than heroic?
Now that mythic raiding will be the only real way of gearing, not only are you devaluing mythic plus, but you also push the m+ers to also do that other content they’ve no interest in
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Don’t you guys remember back in WOTLK when we killed the Spider boss and we literally won the expansion? I mean, that Spider Boss got me BiS gear. I didn’t even need to kill Lich King.
Mythic+ will have the same value at the end of week. Right now you farm mythic+ until you have all slots at whatever the max it can be (475?). In SL you will farm mythic+ until you have all slots at whatever the max it can be.
Just that in the process you won’t take a dump on heroic raiding.
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I’ve talked at length about how to avoid this, however I’d like to address it directly here, from another angle.
If heroic raiding is trivialized, Mythic raiding is the same thing but harder and potentially more fulfilling for those that love raiding, and you’re incentivized heaving with the most carrots on a stick of any game mode that exists. Edit: If individuals enjoy H Raiding for some reason that cannot be fulfilled in Mythic raiding, I’d like to be informed of the reason.
If mythic + is (in relative + in absolute) devalued, you’re removing an entire game system of which individuals enjoy singularly (enjoy + rewarded in a way that sustains the system from within). It’s been there for PvP for several expansions now. End of week loot =/ the entirety of gearing strategies, and it (for all content) quantifies to a much lower gear acquisition bar than Raid gearing (which is important for pace of seasons & inclusion/engagement).
I don’t see the issue with that. “By the end of the tier” is fine. Gearing from the Mythic+ chest is a pain. Look at this DK, I finally got a usable 475 ring last night.
This is way after I got CE on my main, and had done Mythic on an alt even. So why is it an issue ?
No it won’t. Right now you have horrific visions for a 470 piece, the weekly cache, 5 ilvl better than heroic (news flash, doing a 15 is harder than heroic raid) and corruptions which vastly outweighed ilvl. I can sit in 465 gear with the right corruption and be mostly fine. No corruptions in SL.
I’ve already joined a mythic raiding guild, because if I don’t my gear will be horrendous for months with no way to get better except to gamble on one piece once a week.
I find it hilarious that people in GD think they were doing 15s before being fully heroic geared. Most of the people complaining about “m+ gearing them too fast” completed their first 15 months after being heroic geared.
Btw on my 475 druid, I was still wearing heroic raid trinkets despite having multiple 475 m+ trinkets
You have more option in the Vault to mitigate some rng, there is also a lot of rng with gear in mythic raiding, I never got a pant drop from yhe raid as an example and i also saw sone hinter go without the bow for months even when stacking other hunter to get it.
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Except that mythic requires a static 20 plus bench, is much more difficult, and for a tank like me, is much more complicated to get in a group cause no matter the size of the raid, there’s till only gonna be 2 tanks.
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If you manage to run 10 +15 keys in a week. That’s a feat in and of itself, on top of a raiding schedule. And it’s fine for Mythic+ only players. Still don’t see the issue.
A lot less and they now get a chest too.
More option of power; not more absolute gear / power per week.
Argowol brings up excellent points about gear optimization, and I don’t see devaluing M+ as making that any easier - it just makes the weekly pains even harder. The weekly loot box is clever guile to keep players logging in under guise of loot acquisition without providing a clear path to said loot (super rng mode)
So, it’s harder than H Raiding, and that’s why you’d prefer not to?
Edit: I’m not trying to be offensive, I want to frame the point here
I would imagine one reason is not being able to succeed in mythic like they can in heroic? Not everyone’s amazing at this game, and some folks are playing with disabilities.
Who? I hate this hamsterwheel you call “content”. Not everyone treats wow as a full time job. I want to log on and have fun, not grind for things that are design to “keep you busy”.