And then you start complaining about the lack of content and how the game is boring and you need a new patch ASAP.
Gearing through M+ is too fast and easy.
23 Likes
Then atleast you can play some alts, or push Mythic Raiding with a guild or Rank PVP without worrying about gearing up.
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Well that gives the game an extra lifespan of… 1 month? And then you dump it.
About alts, I’m sure that MMORPGs shouldn’t be designed around players having multiple characters. While I like them myself, it breaks the natural immersion of a RPG.
I don’t mind that they dropped the end of dungeon item level. But I think that with doing so, there is no longer a need to reduce the amount of drops.
Less loot is less fun, and you don’t need both solutions to one problem.
11 Likes
But then at least I could play the game how I wanted instead of being forced to raid. It’s 2020, raiding is an outdated game mode that needs to go.
24 Likes
You are not forced. A player that only does +0 dungeons could also say that he is forced to do M+ for better gear, but he dislikes the concept and “want to play the way he wanted”.
The game wasn’t designed around x or y player, but around a majority. We are not snowflakes.
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That’s the fun of the game though. If it’s too fast it does get boring.
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I agree. I don’t want things to be alt unfriendly but when gearing is super quick like in BFA it feels meaningless. I’m glad getting an upgrade will feel more special again, at least compared to BFA. Gear won’t feel as pointless too when you use it for more than a day before replacing it with a new item as we could spam dungeons and gear too quickly.
1 Like
People are currently leveling 4 of the same character to protect against power wedges. I emphatically don’t agree with designing a game around alts (and think M+ changes could actually provide a vehicle for more content for your main); but I also find your answer poor here, given the behavior we’re already seeing.
Both are currently forced to do both. Just mathematically is the nature of things, and we can improve on this system to make a more viable long term game solution (like OP is asking for in sentiment, not detail)
someone who only does m+ still has the exact same access to mythic lvl raid gear as they do now, in fact better access since they get a choice at the end of the week.
so no one is “forcing” you to raid.
Now its true that some of your BIS gear might only come from raid, same is true now, and some of the BIS gear is going to come from m+ which means that even mythic raiders are going to end up having to run it.
Thats just the nature of the game.
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I find it hilarious the amount of people who think they will be doing +14s and 15s before they’re fully heroic geared 
you have this wild recency bias because of how boosted your character power was from corruptions that 15s are easy at the beginning of a season or expansion
8 Likes
How many players from the current playerbase are doing that? You can’t generalize.
That’s wrong. You are not forced to do anything. You are given the option to do both.
Exactly. There’s a fine line between gear being too restricted and gear being handed out like candy.
Sounds like a min/max thing to do… something attributed to the smallest percentage of the player base, at least according to GD.
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Yeah maybe if you spend 80 hours running mythic +15s in a week. No one sane does that. Also getting geared up in a reasonable timeframe means I can focus my time and efforts on actually enjoying all the other content. Raids only even still exist because of LFR. Raiding is dead, may it stay that way.
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I said that we’re seeing this occur, I know several, mostly from high performing guilds. Of course we can generalize, based on observed behavior. However, it should be noted there’s no hard data on this. More of an anthro approach & qualitative data, than quant.
Let me clean up the loose wording then. Mathematically, Raid gear dominates all content, and requires players to go through the raid gearing path every week of the season to remain within a striking distance of competitive power in their preferred content. It’s been stated that they’re design intent is to create three parallel progression paths for itemization.
Raid is now included in the weekly chest, a relative nerf to m+; on top of the specific nerf to m+ itemization. Intra-week loot effectively does not exist in SL for any content except for Raid boss (read: historically is a 25% chance of personal loot per boss, have citations in post history).
The issue here is the cadence of gearing, appears to be beyond dominant for Raid gearing, and presents itself as the only progression path for anyone intending to push high keys in the season, or high rating in Arenas.
2 Likes
I think the current rates are pretty fair, you have a 1/5 chance of gear dropping from each raid boss, and a 1/5 chance of gear from each m+ dungeon completed, 2/5 chance if you time it. you also get your guaranteed loot in your end of week chest.
on top of that m+ is the only system where your weekly cache grants you a HIGHER ilvl than what you would have gotten from drops. with +15’s giving heroic level gear (-3) at end of dungeon, but mythic level gear in the cache. meanwhile heroic raid kills only give you heroic level loot in your weekly cache (as an option, you still only get 1 piece, which means raiders who are wanting to push their gear but aren’t doing mythic yet will “have” to do m+)
yes m+ got nerfed, no one is arguing that, but everything got nerfed, and at the end of the day m+ is still in a better position than most if people want to gear quickly.
1 Like
Yup, you’re absolutely right
I think they should have stayed with something like “Seasons”, like they did for arena gear back in the day (or even “Last Season’s Arena gear for battleground honor.”)
They sort of do that for gearing up solo, with me getting the stuff from Nazjatar and then replacing it with Horrific Vision gear. If I recall, there was a LONG “dry period” before that, though. Then it seemed like Visions came way too soon after Naz. “Hey, but I JUST got this stuff???”
Something like that where every few months there was new stuff to do, with new gear to get, would keep me playing constantly. Now I’m at sort of an impasse, for what I can get with the number of masks I can solo visions with, this close before Shadowlands comes out and the gear is meaningless.