A major point that people miss is that “complete players” will be valued much more than niche players, in any game. You can’t pick a specific part of the game and demand that you will be as good as other players that are good in all aspects, including yours.
Raiding is a part of the game since launch. It is a MMORPG. Rainding, social interaction is always welcome. Remember the raids to invade cities? That was a MMORPG in its purest form.
Pushing M+ to be an end in itself is the same that pushing a NBA Game to be all about free throws - well but that is not basketball! “I don’t care about basketball.” Well, you should find another game then.
When BiS lists come out after launch probably half the gear will come from the weekly mythic+ chest with how trash the secondary stat coverage is in the new raid.
Mail has 5 slots with 1 single stat combo in the raid for example.
I think there is a disconnect. Mythic raiding has always given the best ilevel (WF / TF notwithstanding). The only difference in SL is that heroic is 3 levels higher than M+, so when you are talking of pushing keys, how is this change (3 levels lower than heroic) preventing you from pushing keys past +15? Wouldn’t you have needed to be Mythic raiding anyways to get into the 20’s? To flip the script a bit, when you could spam M+ for 465, couldn’t that trivialize heroic raiding much quicker?
A game made for complete players doesn’t need to make every path equally good and rewarding. For complete players, it is totally natural that some content are steps towards a final content. The idea is that M+ are and should always be steps towards mythic raiding.
People want to make mythic dungeons an end in itself. Well, what if a new niche of players shows up demanding that you get BiS from questing? “Questing should reward the same ilvl than M+ and Mythic raiding. I want it to.”
Likely somewhat true. The outsize amount of the dev budget that went to raids had to addressed in some way. The addition of LFR to bring a larger portion of the player base into raiding was good and has sought to find the perfect balance of “can be done by a group of previously unrelated folks” and “not so dumb it can be done by any group that does not do anything right” has been…polarizing to say the least. Despite the claims that “everyone just afks while autoattacking” it’s not that easy.
I’m glad to see bosses in LFR being more mechanically challenging in the last 2 expacs. Those bosses are frequently…quite tiresome to get down. But with persistence and some calm clear instruction they eventually do go down.
Demonstrabably not true and no better than the “LFR was doa and has only gotten worse since it was added” crowd.
The raids are iconic and fun. I wish that they had more content based around and in them. So much space, so much potential, and sadly underused.
There definitely is. The problem is that before 8.3 we had titan forging to be able to continue pushing past 15.
In 8.3 we had horrific visions, 5 levels above heroic, the weekly box, and corruptions outweighing ilvl by a significant amount.
In SL we have 1 item from the box, that’s it. It’s not a 3 ilvl difference from before, it’s an 8 ilvl difference + corruptions.
God I’m going to hate gearing in SL
I heavily disagree? What in Gods name made you think this should be a thing?
A +20 is harder than half the mythic raid, what are you babbling about. If a quest is harder to complete than a mythic raid boss, sure, give it some mythic loot? This is one of the dumbest, most freezing cold takes I’ve ever encountered in my life
For sure is harder. A M+ has the potential to Its difficult be infinite. A mythic raid can only be compared to a +10 or +15 (that gives you rewards and are designed to be doable).
Everything past 10 or 15 is only e-benis measurement and is as much content as aggroing an entire map’s section and killing it solo. You put a timer on it and call “e-sports”.
A race is one thing, a time trial is another. You can never compare both. You should question yourself, what is the maximum M+ level that devs care about balance? That is the jackpot and that is what you can compare to mythic raiding.
It became an end on itself due to the infinite potential, but it lacks meaninful content past its reward capacity. Dungeons were always a step towards raiding until legion/bfa screwed it.
I know everyone on the forums is CE week 1, but let’s not forget there’s a lot of players out there in casual guilds who will spend whole patches progressing through normal and heroic. They’ll be able to use M+ end of dungeon loot for a long time.
Anddddd we’ve found the guy who pretends to know what he’s talking about but has clearly never done the content!! I’m not even going to bother checking your raider.io because this statement was that obvious.
Please stay away from topics you VERY clearly have no experience in.
Any game blanket revelations don’t necessarily apply here, in my opinion. It’s a massive player base of diverse interest. I read “Complete Player” here as min/max professionals. Which should hold weight, but not be the entire driving force. My entire point on this, is that highly competitive “non-complete” players are also on the board. It’s very likely healthy for the game to consider all of it’s players, and create a simple but elegant solution that doesn’t penalize a large portion of it’s player base.
Side note: I understand that my viewpoint is very different from some other individuals here, and I’m highly appreciative of those individuals; like, Argorwal, who has worked for days on this to weed through the garden with me and come to solutions that may work better than what exists. I see this, as the best of what these forums can offer, to the individuals designing and developing the future (and now) of this game.
HV maxed out at 1 piece of 470. Weekly box actually is better for M+ now than raiding with the removal of bonus rolls. Keep in mind that if M+ is your endgame, you’ll get to your max out on box choices quicker than a mythic raider will get their 10 boss kills each week. Corruptions I will grant you and why I’m glad there will be less RNG come SL. But if you think anything is changing between BfA and SL in regards to M+ when it comes to pushing keys, can you point me to several high end pushers who didn’t mythic raid at all and were pushing the high end keys? I’d be willing to bet on experience that the majority of the high end pushers were also running mythic raids to some extent.
By “complete players” I clearly mean players that are eclectic and enjoy every aspect of the game. For sure niche players are on the board, but they are not the core of the game.
In my experience, it is few that love any one system equally. Raid and PvP are often at odds. By this definition, I know very few “complete players” in my long history with this game since downloading it before it even launched when I was a child (though, at times, I’ve been one heavily).
I don’t see it the same as you do, that this is the core of the player base, but it is core to the current design intent. I think it’s time to have more of these conversations, so we can have a better World… of Warcraft
You are aware that mythic plus is the most popular form of content in the game right?
I thought I should go look you up to see if what you had any experience with what you were saying. I’m sorry I just can’t take someone who literally parses gray and green in HEROIC (it’s been a while since I’ve seen someone with 0 blue parses btw) and who was carried through his only 15
So I really would steer clear from pretending you know how the game works
I like that you threw arguments out of the window and now are going with ad hominem. Well, to do so, you should at least know how tanks’ and healers’ parses are calculated. Do you? By the way, do you know how much time I’ve played BFA? And do you know how much time I have spent on other expansions or other accounts?
I see that you are at least trying to be smart, and I’m proud of you. But I hope that you give more effort to it and let the emotions go, so you can be a little bit more rational. I mean, how old are you? It is very normal for teenagers to mistake rationality with emotions…
