You can just gear up in m+, is just going to be slower than doing both.(m+ and raid) You are still going to have a lot of mythic ilv items in a couple of months.
Same thing for raiding, you could just raid and get your gear from it, but you are going to fall behind the people that do both.
Is not going to take 3 months to do 10 +15, you are crazy if you believe that.
So it will take 2 months to be clearing 15s, but I assume you are saying killing many mythic bosses will happen faster?
Also are you comparing gearing rates of pugging mythic+ vs a guild raiding?
Or pugging mythic+ vs pugging raiding?
You are over estimating the playing base. I have primarily played M+ across this expansion and not yet dumped it.
They also reduced the amount of gera you get from raiding and is not like it was raining gear in there anyway.
You dont get upgrades from raiding every week, especially the first few months where there is less trading going on.
The only stupid thing being said here is that you canât do content without outgearing it.
Being able to do content in lower gear than said content drops is fundamental mmo design. It has always been the case, and it always will be.
You will be able to complete a 14/15 without any heroic raid gear, plain and simple.
It took me a month and a half to get KSM in 8.3 and I was top 400 mages in NA, and that was having 15 keys from day 1 because we did a 16 in s3. I suspect it will take a little longer to be able to spam 15s at the beginning of an expansion donât you?
Iâm not sure how fast it will be for killing mythic bosses, but by the end of the third or 4th month I suspect most mythic raiders will be killing 4-5 mythic bosses per week which ends up being 4-5 chances at 226 loot per week + 2 guaranteed 226 from the box. As your guild gets better geared, then more people wonât need the loot they get as well, which can be traded.
A similar player who does only m+ will get 1 piece of 226 per week.
These things are not even comparable I donât know how itâs even a discussion 
and I am talking about guild raiding and premade dungeons
Did I? Do I? Iâm looking through my post history and not seeing this.
Being able to do PvP is nice. Being able to do PvP on alts is fun, too. Doing PvP requires gear, then you can PvP as much as you want.
I get it. Thatâs your playstyle. I see a lot of raiders saying things like when they get their bis gear theyâre done for the patch. They donât really like raiding and only do it because of the gear. Theyâd do whatever was required to get that bis gear and then theyâre done.
Thatâs actually not how PvP works. To do PvP, you need gear. Then you do PvP because you like doing PvP.
Iâm sorry you donât like the game. That doesnât mean other people are like you.
They have also made 15 easier in the past, in nighthold it was pretty much the same difficulty to time a 15 than it was to do a 10 in emerald nightmare.
I never said I couldnât. I said that most of the people complaining that they gear too fast from m+ wonât even be able to do those keys for months. Also, if youâre going to comment on how easy it is to do a 15, please do so from a toon that has done higher than a 12 or Iâm afraid I wonât be able to take you seriously, because according to your 467 geared monk, you can only do content that drops 460
fully geared to START pushing the content you enjoy. No way you are fully geared 1-2 weeks, as it takes at the very BEST case scenario, 14 weeks. to get mythic level gear from your chest, if you get a new thing that is actually good each week.
So, the ilevel difference in m+ vs heroic raiding is completely dumb and has no good reason other than forcing people into the raid who may not want to go there AND forcing raiders to take longer to gear by not allowing trading as easily during the first few weeks of raiding.
Yeah but letâs not pretend our borrowed power was just 4 key levels lol. I wear R5TD on my Prot pally⌠Packs melt when it goes off its silly.
You laughed at the idea of people doing 14/15 without full heroic gear. Your words.
Also, as soon as you start attacking someoneâs forum character, you are basically admitting you have nothing of value to add.
Yes, I laugh at the GD forum dwellers who were carried by corruption who think that they will be doing 14s and 15s before being fully heroic geared. Most of them who can barely do a 15 now will be unlikely to see higher than a 10.
No, I just ask that you provide proof you know what youâre talking about. As of right now youâre just a random guy who doesnât even do the content trying to ruin the game experience for those of us who exclusively do mythic +
The majority have never been raiders. The increased requirement for raiding as a prerequisite for other content means the devs are trying to force everyone to raid. Imagining you are part of the majority kind of puts you squarely into the snowflake category.
But itâs also true that no matter how you try, you cannot force people to raid. They always will have the most meaningful choice of all, which is not to play when the content is forced, neither engaging nor fun, and the community goes to garbage, led by players like you who want the community to be crap. Why else would you be trying to make the community crap?
LOL, looked at your raiding history.
right? like, who gets HAPPY when things are changed that make other people unhappy? Thatâs how crazy this topic is.
âman i love this content and, its rewards are goodâ
blizzard nerfs rewards
âcrap!â
This forum: Lol losers. Play different content.
The point is the gear acquisition rate of 226 gear for raiding changes over time where mythic+ is fairly static.
In another post they had thousands of data sets that showed loot drops in a raid is ~25%, or for a mythic raid of 20 people means 1 in 4. Or you would need to kill 4 bosses to get 20 pieces of 226 gear for your 20 man raid. Also limited to the loot tables of the killable bosses.
Where doing a single mythic+ dungeon will also yield 20 pieces of 226 gear for the entire raid.
Once a guild is going deeper into mythic (already a much smaller % of people than those doing keys) raiding out paces it.
So no, they arenât equal and Iâm not sure they can or should be.
But, if they wanted to add the equivalent to mythic+ as there is to raiding then I guess it would, at say a +20 or wherever you feel is appropriate, could drop a single 226 from the end of dungeon run once per week. And once you complete 1 dungeon like that you are saved to a dungeon ID that to do the other dungeons you have to have the same 5 people. And itâs not cross realm for the first 2 months.
That has always been the case and i dont see what the problem is? People that have a group to do m+ should be fine and time their key a month after m+ is out.
And 15s were going down early in the season with very low cloak levels and random crap corruption acquisition.
Itâs not the same as now with maxed cloaks and a vendor.
Anyone can tell you that you donât need higher level gear than content drops to do the content. That basic mmo design does not hinge on what keys my monk has done.
Also Iâm not sure how I personally am trying to ruin our game experience by trying to explain to you that we are going to be okay and still push keys without raid gear.
But I guess youâll figure it out yourself in a couple months. Hope you enjoy the expansion.
Yep this would be a fine solution.
The problem is that the gear that drops from end of run is worse than heroic, and getting 1 decent piece of loot per week will not allow you to push keys in any reasonable fashion.
Anyone can tell you this for sure, and just be lying through their teeth. Which is why Iâm asking you why your monk has 467 gear but can only complete content that drops 460?
Ruining my experience comes from forcing me to mythic raid to progress in mythic plus, which is what youâre advocating for. If you think you can push keys without raid gear, youâre simply proving to me that youâve never pushed keys