Then don’t raid. If you don’t find enjoyment in it then what’s the point? Do what you think is fun. That’s how I personally play WOW. I could not care less for pet battles or the mission table - I simply don’t partake. Those aspects of the game can just be. You’ll be absolutely fine grinding keys endlessly, there’s nothing wrong with that, and you’ll get the appropriate rewards for doing so. The progress made in M+ isn’t made meaningless because of raiding.
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Considering every major patch in the game is centered around the new raid, I wouldn’t quite call raiding “dead.”
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Dude how is this not getting through to you? If we don’t mythic raid this tier, we can’t push high keys, full stop. Our gear will be too poor to complete the content.
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Fair point, but that’s actually the core of the position. The game is designed around carrots on a stick, and is behaviorally manipulative. The issue in conversation, is that, It’s so far out of alignment that it’s unhealthy for the game and wedges tons of players into undesirable content patterns.
I don’t see the answer to this as “Just ignore the devs, then, and do what you want”. Because, min-maxing aside (speaking on the issue of scaling here), people can want to enjoy their content without being completely powerless (in their content) because of it. There are massively difficult moments to game throughout other systems, that aren’t even awarded now.
It would likely be better for the longevity and health of the game to come up with a different, smart, solution that doesn’t penalize communities specifically.
So what would be the solution to this. If people can’t progress appropriately in M+ because of raiding, what needs to change?
End of dungeon gear has never been the reason for being able to push high keys so why do you think this will change now?
You think those few people doing 30s is due to end of dungeon gear being 465?
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There are also more factors in M+. 8 dungeons with several pieces per dungeon that can be useful. Generally one per boss for each armor type. Now throw in itemization has historically been all over the place with stat weights, and the difficulty of targeting pieces by needing to find the keystone. What actually happens is you end up “farming” lots of useless gear.
Let’s also talk difficulty, early in an expansion a +15 is a mythic effort but rewards less than heroic? Only 130k characters completed a +15 in BFA S1 over 300k killed at least 1 mythic boss in Uldir. The ending chest is pretty cool but now we are at more of a deficit because it’s one piece per week whereas I got several mythic bosses per week (obv not early cause mythic takes time to progress).
The point is, after 2 weeks of Hmode being out M+ will be dead because of little incentive to do anything but 15s which most people won’t see anyways.
Couple of notes. A+7 seems really low for the gear it gives. That blue post was wildly confusing and really didn’t help the situation. Unless +15s are tuned to be the new +10s it’s asinine to think a +15 drops less than Hmode considering it’s difficulty level.
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You have to Mythic raid to push high keys right now though, maybe less so due to corruption but you weren’t doing 20+ keys in S1-3 without Mythic raiding.
Yes but by your logic no one will be able to complete the 14/15 becuase they wont have any 226 chests because they couldn’t complete the 14/15 without it lol.
You will not need to raid to complete a 14. You will do 7s to get geared for 10s to get geared for 12s to get geared for 14s. Just like always.
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No, but at least in part due to mythic raiding gear (maybe not anymore, being so late in the tier/season…)
I want to point out that in season 1 the weekly reward capped at +10 so I would expect a massive drop off after 10 or 11 (to get a 10 key in the chest).
With no increase in gear and no +15 mount anyone not interested in pushing for fun wouldn’t bother.
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Wrong. In s1-3 you didn’t need to mythic raid because of titanforging. It gave us the ability to progress our gear. The only time I’ve actually mythic raided this expansion was S2. S3, I did 3 bosses, the guild I was in fell apart and I didn’t bother. I still pushed 21 keys. My wife who never mythic raided S2 or 3 managed 23 keys both seasons. I hated titanforging but at least it gave us a way to get good enough gear for grinding out m+
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I think that having a few gearing options is always best.
#boxingischeating
#endmultiboxing
#1button1action
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Yes, BiS gear for both raiding and mythic+ contains gear from both raiding and mythic+.
Of course then it’s back to how available mythic quality gear is from each source.
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Doing a +20 needs to drop mythic raid loot with a couple caveats -
A) only drops on successfully timed run
B) only starts a month after world first kill
It was enough to push to a decent level this season. With corruptions outweighing ilvl we could scrape by. Before this season we had titan forging. I’m saying that if you want to play m+ exclusively you should be able to gear from it.
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It’s still enough now?
The vault actually helps you by giving more choices so it’s less likely a 226 item will be wasted?
This is true, they added a pretty bad A mount but I don’t think people remember what it was like going for higher keys early. One reason +15s are easy right now is due to our ludicrous amounts of borrowed power our characters have. It’s gonna be extremely rough going for .0 keys early.
Unless they nerf 15s to be 10s. Then this whole thing gets flipped on its head shirts
fully heroic geared in 2 weeks? asummin that you have the best of lucks right?
Who knows how the scaling will go.
Also most people forget in 8.3 they upped the scaling. A 15 now is the same as a 19 from 8.2.
Does it really though? 3 potential pieces per week out of a table of 100 pieces? So instead of a 1% chance of getting the item you need, it’s a 3% chance. Yay? Or you could raid mythic and share the chest, get loot that is better, and have a shot at 226 gear from each boss. Which way is faster do you think?
A season is ~ 5 months long. By the time we’re doing 15s it will most likely be at least a month and a half before we’re doing 15s. 2 months before we’re timing 10 15s in a week. That leaves 3 months left in the season or 12-13 weeks. It would take 14 weeks to get fully geared from the weekly cache, so assuming you get your bis item from the chest every week (lol) you’ll be fully geared a week after the season ends!
Stop saying stupid things, it’s unbecoming. Either that or you’ve just never done a 15
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