i don’t feel like wasting huge amounts of time gearing after all these yrs so ya be quiet. if you don’t like mythic+ then don’t do it but you know you will just like all the complainers were doing mythic+ to get content down quicker. mythic+ was a good change why should i be doing the exact same thing gearing . raid or die is dead.
Bro stop pretending it’s 3 ilvl. Last season it was 5 above heroic, so it’s an 8 ilvl loss. Plus there was corruption to bridge the gap. Before that there was titanforging to bridge the gap.
I could get by in 21s with only mythic + gear and horrific vision gear, but that’s because I could stack % corruptions on worse gear and be ok, but still I was getting really close to the limit on how far I could push. Now, I have nothing. It’s either mythic raid or not be able to push at all.
Also, yes, every ilvl is huge when you get to higher keys. Every second, every % of health matters when you’re timing something by the skin of your teeth and abilities are hitting you for 99% of your HP bar. With raider ios new stat thing it shows me my closest call was timing the dungeon by 0.06 seconds. If I had 1 ilvl lower we didn’t time.
Mythic plus should reward the best rewards at the highest level, same as PvP and mythic raid, not reward less than heroic for the highest level.
Wait till OP finds out Timewalking gives you ilvl caped gear.
You are comparing it to the last tier of the expansion where there is always more gear and catchup mechanics. The first tier is always slow in terms of gearing up.
I love the idea of dungeon sets. I’d really love to see those return alongside tier. That’s a superb idea, IMO.
I’m still on the fence about the idea of having repeatable content drop such high ilvl gear, personally. I’m not saying that you’re wrong for wanting it, I’m just saying that I know I’d hate it.
I’m looking to push Mythic prog in SL. It’s been a really long time since I’ve done that, but having to grind my brains out outside of raid so I can compete for 1 of 20 spots would just be terrible to me. If such a system existed, I’d either revert to casual play or just find another game.
I require something in this game to put a cap on what’s expected of me as a mythic raider, lol. It’s bad enough that I’ll probably be expected to push 15 +15 keys on one character.
A currency system with a cap or an increase to the amount of items I get from my cache on top of the selection is optimal for me. I’d even be cool with a system that lets me upgrade my drops over time. But I’m someone who enjoys M+ in a casual manner. I don’t personally care about pushing keys. Perhaps a dungeon set would make it more enticing, perhaps not.
I do hope they can find a way to add to the reward structure of this thing though.
Bro there was always titanforging before 8.3
Dont say that you’ll be called obnoxious by try hard mythic raiders.
There was also titanforging in mythic raids, so the difference between them would have been the same
This makes no sense. Yes there was titanforging in mythic raids, but titanforging in M+ allowed M+ gear to be the same as raids.
After they removed titanforging they realized that M+ gear would become useless unless they buffed it. They still didn’t buff it by enough. Now they’re nerfing it to a state thats worse than its ever been, there’s no longer any titanforging, they’ve nerfed the drop rates, and given the M+ cache to raiders.
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Wouldn’t say that it’s obnoxious, but it’s a little silly to call raiding an outdated game mode. It’s still a scene that’s alive and well.
If raiding isn’t your thing, then WoW probably isn’t the game for you and it never has been. Maybe look into League of Legends or Fortnite or something. Let us old folks have our old game.
Your hypothesis is that the amount of content increases, if the frequency of rewards decrease?
It has some merit because people are more prone to repeat content to get the rewards they want but that doesn’t really mean there is more content, people are just willing to repeat it.
Spending ~20-40 minutes in a dungeon should always reward the player. If the reward at the end of the dungeon does not feel like it has validated the previous 20-40 minutes, then there is a big problem in the design.
So if a player gets to the end of a dungeon and does NOT get an item, what can they be rewarded with that is significant? Gold/anima really does not feel rewarding, dungeon consumables/runes/pots/flasks/drums etc might be depending on the quantity.
I think an interesting gameplay loop would be doing farm runs for consumables, then doing real challenge runs using full consumes etc. Even if you don’t get an item, if you get 10 pots to use in your next dungeon it starts to feel rewarding.
Blizzard are saying they are taking a large chunk of loot out of the game so that when you do get loot it is more rewarding… I think loot drops need to be much smarter, otherwise we bring back the issue of not being able to upgrades because duplicates keep dropping, maybe every M+ dungeon should have the vault style choose 1 of 3 rewards.
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In terms of not getting an item at the end of the dungeon making it not feel rewarding, how do you feel about an end boss that takes 350 wipes and then 15 out of the 20 people don’t even get an item on the kill?
I think I solve this pretty well with diminishing returns on loot chance above 15 (example: 16% / 4% / 1%), you could have it cap after that - or just forget the DR and have it loot lockout after 1 run. Also, having the “high ilvl” active only effectively be within the m+ theater. This keeps it entirely outside of raid requirements, and allows raiders to stay focused on their prog planning
I feel like you both are at the ends of the same scale. Regardless, the psychology is such that much delayed gratification isn’t the greatest feeling for all content (some, sure), and that where you need to apply yourself in really difficult ways it feels better to be rewarded (or the potential to be rewarded). Be it a 350 wipe boss, or weeks of grinding for a +X0 key, or glad PvP
I say gratz on the title (remember what I said about adequate reward and not needing to be an item)?
Raiding has a very different dynamic to the M+ system though. Especially Mythic raiding which is either:
-exclusively contained in a guild or tight social group,
-is for one or two easy bosses (which are undertuned)
-is at the stage where “current character power level” vastly outmatches the intended difficulty.
Raiding is about climbing a mountain, once you get to the peak, its all downhill, going from those 350 wipes to farming the content is a fairly quick transition (rng not withstanding).
M+ on the other hand, fills many different niches, for some its a supplementary gearing source for their raiding. For others it is THE primary gearing source and only end game activity they will do. Some times it is purely groupfinder assisted (raiderio), sometimes its premade with the same players week in week out.
Ultimately I see it as about rewarding success, I am not advocating for a communist loot system, where everyone gets equal rewards for time spent no matter the content. I am fine with some content being more ludicrous and rewarding than other content but I want content to feel rewarding when you achieve success.
Completing a dungeon and not getting a reward feels very dissatisfying. Just like doing an entire raid and not getting a reward feels terrible… or needing one single item from a raid that is a very big power spike and going weeks and weeks without getting it feels extremely dissatisfying.
Heck being in raids and knowing that you will only get maybe 1-4 drops from a full raid clear, and getting those drops on the wrong bosses also feels really bad… “I want a slappyboi off raden”… oh but I have gotten loot off wrathion, prophet, dark inquis and vex… probably not going to even get a drop off raden now… nope GG got all those duplicate/vendortrash drops… better luck next week.
I don’t see why both loot systems couldn’t be improved upon.
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Because Bliz have said that LFR participation is the only way they can justify even making raids any more, because the number of people that do normal raids or higher is such a small percentage of the playerbase. Pretty much any PvPer knows how small that section of the player base is. Mythic+ on the other hand, has tons of people playing it, even now only a few days from prepatch. Bliz wouldn’t have created a whole new international e-sports based around it if the metrics didn’t show them that it would be profitable.
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This is a lie, prove it. Raiding has more people then ever. It’s not a small population of the playerbase. It’s probably harder to find people that don’t raid at all they those that do raid unless you only talk to WQ people.
M+ population was inflated because of gear rewards, very few people I know even like it. The only reason they spent time with M+ was to gear for our raiding or gearing for PvP.
PvP population has gone down as they ruined the balance, BG’s are horrible atm. BG’s used to be the most popular content in the game. To be fair though many people used them as a easy way to get started gearing just like with M+ today so I don’t really know how popular they truly where outside of being told by Blizzard more people did BG’s than all forms of raiding in the past.
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wow doesnt have any immersion…
nope, the majority still dont raid. Sorry to burst your bubble, but raiding remains a niche pursuit for 5-10% of nerds who pore over spreadsheets and such rubbish rather than relax and enjoy a little escape from the daily grind
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Sure give me access to Blizzards metrics and I’ll happily prove it. Mythic+ is the future of WoW.
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