Yes, people that are willing to spent more time playing the game should be the ones getting the better rewards.
Why do you think you should get better/as good as rewards as someone who is putting in a ton more effort than you?
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Mythic raiders will not be farming 226 gear the day mythic drops; stop having that idea in your head, it isn’t a thing.
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I never said they would. They will be farming gear that is significantly higher ilvl than people running m+ solely. That gear does not exist in M+ anymore.
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This is what i ment by it takes more than just being good, but a commitment to a team. There’s a lot that goes into that commitment and involves a lot of time and scheduled hours.
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3 ilvls will not dictate M+ success, it is there to stop split runs. It is the equivalent of saying that my 485 wep dictates me doing a mythic 20+ compared to a warrior with a 475, the item is not the deciding factor, the play is.
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What is the point of the last boss dropping the highest ilvl stuff? If you can already beat the last boss you don’t need more ilvls. More ilvls at this point will only give raiders an unfair advantage in M+ and pvp.
Then you have to ask yourself a critical question. If the top loot was removed from raiding, would people still raid? Some, maybe, but not many.
Meanwhile, people who enjoy M+ go far beyond the loot threshold. Ditto for PvP players.
Do people actually like raiding more, or do they just like that it’s more rewarding? The only way to find out is to truly level the playing field and make M+ PvP and raiding equally rewarding across the board.
Manipulating the population into raiding through higher gear standards isn’t the way. It’s a good way to make players quit though.
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Sorry, are you saying mythic raiding guilds won’t be receiving mythic raiding gear the first week mythic raids are out?
Because you’re wrong. Most decent mythic raiding guilds, rather than casual heroic guilds that dabble in mythic, will likely down 5 or 6 bosses from week 1.
I’ve got a great idea:
Let’s remove gear from mythic raiding altogether. Just cap the gear at heroic raids. If you really like raiding, you’ll still do it for the honor and glory anyway, right? We can all gear up together in the weekly chest.
Absolute nonsense.
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talking big yet you can’t kill nzoth “easy” lmao coming from a blood elf player I didn’t expect anything but a brain dead answer
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The penalty for failure in Mythic raiding is minimal. The penalty for failure in M+ is permanent. There’s a rather large difference. Raid content always winds up being farmed to the point where carries are easy and often. M+ carries just aren’t possible at the highest tiers. There’s a massive playerbase that enjoys M+ and there’s a very thin line of Mythic raiders who expect to be “the best there ever was” because they can stomach repetitive content that is purely mechanical and not dynamic AT ALL.
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Yes, of the hardest content that will be far and away more difficult than mythic 15s, and receiving 10-12 pieces of loot across 20 people.
Raiding requires far more of a time commitment, and it is MUCH harder to get 20 players coordinated at the max level of play than it is to have 5 do it. Even in this tier where corruption has BROKEN the game, there are still tons of guilds failing at Nzoth.
I also think it’s hilarious that you think any decent guild will kill 50+% of the raid week 1; hilarious.
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This is actually wrong. There are mitigation thresholds you have to hit to progress further in M+ that don’t exist in raid. Raiding has a hard stopping point, a base line of DPS and mitigation to get through it on top of mechanical prowess.
M+ being an infinity system actually does imply that every single item level does actually matter. If both players were of equal skill, then the guy with 3 item levels will be one level over you. If the ladder matters to you, this is important.
Now imagine that guy doesn’t raid - > he is at a permanent disadvantage, even if he sinks 40 hours a week into M+, it doesn’t matter. He’ll never get those +7 item level weapons, and his gearing path will be a long longer (14+ weeks) than that of the mythic raider.
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By definition, infinite scaling can make any content harder than any static difficulty content.
You could apply this to a world quest elite.
You do realize there are a TON of top mythic+ players without a single 485 piece, right?
And they’re way above people in 485 because that minuscule difference isn’t the dictator; their team work and play and routes are.
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^ This. It’s just sad that raiders expect others to be beneath them.
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You do realize there is 10 ilvl gap on several pieces, weapons included, in this tier as well right?
Go look at the top M+ leaderboard; barely any 485.
I’m arguing with a bunch of people who do 15s and do not have CE; what a waste. Mythic raiding is not easier than M+, any more than M+ at the highest is easier than raiding, but mythic 15s are an absolute joke and to expect the same gear is insane.
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Funny I opened RIO, looked up the top 5 runs, looked up the players in those runs, and nearly every single one of them have items that are 485 equipped. Sorry buddy but you’re wrong. At the very very very top thresholds of an infinity system gear matters, all other things being equal.
You can argue it all you want, but math is not on your side.
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You’re simply wrong.
Firstly, if you are saying that M+ shouldn’t get gear after 15, then the answer is to also cap raiding gear rewards at heroic, since that is the place that Blizzard has now deemed M+15 to be at. Then, the progression after that point is only for glory for raiders, the same as it is for M+… only now the raid gear won’t bleed into M+ progression and artificially inflate the ilvl of people who cross over both.
Or else, move the cap higher for M+.
As for "far more of a time commitment and “MUCH HARDER” to get 20 players coordinated, it’s simply wrong. M+ is infinitely scaling, raiding is not. Definitionally, there is a point at which M+ is harder than mythic raiding to succesfully complete. It is absolutely true that M+ offers way too much QUANTITY of loot in legion and bfa; that is a problem that needed to be solved, and was to some degree solved already. It could be tweaked further if necessary.
To simply remove that gear full stop is just… 
Coordinating 20 players is difficult for 2 or 3 of them; for the others, they have very little to do with that side of things. Some of them may have small units of people they look after (say… 4 or 5? healers? 1 or 2 tanks? Sound familiar?).
There are tonnes of people who fail Mythic NZoth the same as there are tonnes of people who fail 20s, or 25s, or whatever the inflection point is.
To just leave M+ capped and say “too bad, so sad” is just crazy stupid. M+ scales to higher difficulty than mythic raiding, be definition.
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The only players mad about this are people who do not step beyond 15s, ie you, and feel entitled to the top end gear anyways.
I know most of those people, they didn’t bat an eyelash at the ilvl difference and they do not care.
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No, i think you have to ask yourself the critical question. why are people doing things they dont even get better rewards for? and will they keep doing them if we re-align the rewards. The answer to the latter question is yes. so they honestly arent hurting their try-hards. just you carries lol (that was a joke)