The end-all-be-all of gearing is different for each person. For the majority of players I would argue that i-level 465 is as close as they’re realistically going to get. Obviously this doesn’t hold true for everyone, but the majority of players are NOT i-level 475 and above.
As a recruiter for a mythic guild I would argue that it really doesn’t. Most mythic guilds (barring world first or perhaps hardcore/Hall of Fame guilds) are more than willing to gear people up as long as they are willing to listen to criticism and are knowledgeable about their class and role.
M+ (5 man content) can never be equal or even superior to Mythic raiding in terms of difficulty. I understand it can scale until it is impossible. That does not make it hard.
I see people argue a lot that having 1 person die in M+ is far more detrimental than losing that same person in Mythic raiding. That entire argument is flawed. Of course losing 20% of your group is a heavier burden than 5%. To make it apples to apples you have to compare 1 person in M+ to 4 people in a Mythic raid group. Lose a dps and that raid group would lose 4, lose a healer and that raid group would lose all their healers. You need to make the comparison equivalent. That is why Mythic raiding is harder than M+. You need to have a lot more skilled players that work together. It is easier to find 1 than 2, easier to find 2 than 3… easier to find 19 than 20. That is a long chain to go through when one group stops at 5.
You mean when it was close to death? M+ helped bring back and keep a lot of older players into the game. But hey it lets just kneecap their favourite form of progression because peoples epeens are hurt.
Heroic raids are invalidated the day Mythic raids release. You want to raid, raid mythic and let M+ players have their own slightly below Mythic raid progression.
The feeling of having to do mythic + for raiders should be gone with them having access to the vault as well. Right now it will be more efficient for a M+ player to gear up in a Heroic Raid then push high end keys. It’s a dumb idea and is going to sour a lot of people off of SL before it even releases.
This is without even mentioning the soulbind weekly lockouts and limited ability to swap covenants. You need to raid as X covenant, but Y is best for M+ and Covenant Z is your classes PvP covenant soon have fun! World of Chorecraft: Systemlands is shaping up to be great!
On a serious note the art/music teams are killing it like they always do. These lead devs and systems designers need to start thinking about making games for their entire playerbase instead of just small niches.
At least PvPers are finally getting a bone thrown there way even though the PvP part of this game has been on life support since WoD
No, they are not. Perhaps for mythic guilds, but even then, there are mythic guilds that take a few weeks to clear heroic before going on to mythic. Not every mythic guild is world first/hardcore. Even then, heroic is still run for the odd upgrade for a short while.
For that matter, there are plenty of guilds out there who are strictly heroic guilds only (heck, even normal only guilds for that matter), I highly doubt that they feel raiding heroic is worthless the week that mythic raids are released. Perhaps YOU feel that way, but in no way do you speak for everyone.
That is very true. Normal or Heroic remains a challenge for many. But that does not mean we should balance the loot system around Aotc raiders that are sad they can’t fill raid days because people would rather M+.
I agree with you. My only beef with m+ is the ability to infinitely spam it for better than heroic raid gear. Fix that and I’m a happy camper. M+ is the only end game content with zero lockouts, which makes it an outlier.
They may have gone a little overboard with the nerf, but they may change their minds before Shadowlands release. To some extent I do also think the 1 item dropping per clear is fine, it brings m+ more in line with raid drops. Typically you see roughly 4 - 5 items drop per boss with a 20 man group, 1 per 5 players in m+ is fairly similar drop rates (and it sounds like they’re nerfing raid drop rates in Shadowlands too). Not to mention that raiding has a weekly lockout.
I have a feeling they will end up making it at least the same as heroic ilvl before all is said and done. Judging from posts here and other WoW forums there will be a lot of people skipping release if this launches with the end of dungeon rewards currently as they are on the beta. Even though 3 ilvls isn’t a big gap, it’s enough for the M+ crowd to perceive Blizzard doesn’t care about them. After the general consensus of BFA sucking, they really shouldn’t piss off one of their larger player bases over 3 ilvls.
you literally just said raiding is easier… in M+ losing even 1 member is a wipe on higher keys no if’s and’s or but’s about it, but a raid meh 1 down is no big deal.
Your also not taking into account weekly buffs mobs and bosses get and dungeon randoms that do various things. Raids do not get those unless it has changed since legion.
you have yet to say anything that makes raiding harder other than it takes more people. you also didnt address my primary reason for disliking raids, its boring and takes hours and if something happens then the entire night is shot and you got nothing to show for it.
I can understand solo challenges not awarding the best of the best, but you’ve lost me on why, exactly there shouldn’t be challenging and fulfilling 5 person content.
Or, further, why they can’t tune interesting encounters for five people. The need to scale with M+ is largely a lot of the reason the boss encounters are so bland, but hypothetically speaking, they could (and IMO, should) have some fun, challenging 5-man boss fights that are as tightly and specifically tuned as raids are.
Hell, one thing I’ve wanted to see them do is add new boss mechanics, or change up old ones, as you hit certain key thresholds. Boss fights are one of the worst parts of M+, and this’d add a ton of variety.
Players should be able to play the way that they want not conform to a single component that retroactively makes a mockery of everything these developers supposedly stand for.
How much do you think your Covenant choice will matter now since everyone will have to raid to get the best buck out of their play?
I am happy about these changes. It allows players to take a godamn break. Farming the same content repeatedly to no end is not fun. With +15s giving heroic level and the loot boxes giving mythic I don’t see why that’s not fair at all. You can still get full mythic level over time. Also loot is not gauranteed in raids I’ve got full raids without any loot for weeks in a row. Mythic plus get endlessly harder and harder past a loot reward system and the reward is prestige. Ofcourse M+ is “harder” than mythic raid when you get push it to the point that a stare from a mob one shots.
So… quit job, get off rotational shift career and leave the family? Got it.
There already are alternatives to raiding and they are working, your inner fascist doesn’t like that idea at all. You can commit to a set time every week. There are many who cannot. Why does this not compute with you? I could be working on a Saturday night one week then not the next. I could be working a month solid then two weeks off. I get some mornings or evenings to play. If you don’t want to cater to a broad playerbase then I suggest you get off the high horse and realize that the game is dynamic and is changing to suit the sixteen years of players it has created. I’ve seen guys graduate school, get a career, become married and have kids in the time I’ve known them playing wow. You need to get off that fascist view that everyone should conform to a set style of play and learn to understand that there’s a broad spectrum of players out there.
Like Ulduar. Dynamic fights were the original mythic/hard mode and it’s a great loss to us all that Blizzard did not continue along these lines and bring those into dungeon content. Sure, there’s achieves for mount but that’s entirely different. Adding more dimension to bosses for greater rewards has always been something that I’ve advocated.
isn’t the power ramp from gear also more flat than it has been? 3 ilvl in shadowland might be negligible to the point it doesn’t matter if the raid stats distribution is not better than the dungeon stat distribution.
that is to say, if dungeon gear is better optimized then the raid loot might not be “better” just a higher ilvl.
More stam, less dipping from tanks less overhealing. More int, more damage, more agility and strength. No matter how you put it, the stat modifiers are based on item level so no, despite optimisation, a higher item level offers more base stats and therefore more throughput.
Why exactly are we pretending that heroic bosses are harder than +15s? Heroic bosses are generally a joke existing of getting 10 people to not stand in stupid…
I raided in Vanilla all the way up in to Cata. I recently came back to the game. I don’t have the drive to raid anymore. I did it hardcore for years. All the yelling when something goes wrong. All the whiny people who would rather stand in fire and parse then do the mechanics properly because they want to top for the first kill, to just being overall frustrated when you can literally watch people make mistakes that cause the wipe.
M+ has been a dream come true. I came in late in to the game so I didn’t get far and had been trying different characters as I went to see what I wanted to play for Shadowlands. I am fine with them not being on par with Mythic Raiding. I welcome it.
