exactly. except they have to go thru so many hoops to do that.
So they sshould just allow master loot.
Idk it seems pretty straight forward. If you want more higher ilevel gear, do more types of content. Raiding has always been blizzard’s game type of choice that awarded the highest ilevel, I would never expect that to change. I also don’t blame them for not wanting ppl to me heroic/equivalently geared by psycho grinding m+ the moment it comes out.
What is great though, honestly - Is seeing the same faces who defend covenants being locked because only a small portion of the playerbase gets impacted get mad about this.
Sorry did you think you were immune to poor changes from Blizzard? Oh sweet summer child.
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I think ilvl is too much of a shorthand for rewarding player power, if you are doing the top level of content for a particular stream of content, you should be rewarded with the best gear for that content.
i.e if you have the top level gear from M+ you should have more power (dps/defence/healing) in M+ content than a mythic raid geared player. Similarly if you have the best M+ gear you should have less power than a heroic raid geared player inside a raid instance.
The way I would achieve this is by having different procs, set bonuses, effects and stats on gear that function within a specific content stream, however these need to be visible to the player and not “secret dev hax” which are increasinly starting to creep into wow.
It would be interesting if primary/secondary stats on Mythic raid gear were equal to the top M+ gear but had extra bonuses based on the number of nearby allies, or provided bonuses to nearby allies… basically give the mythic raiders more interplay between their RAID gear as opposed to just focusing on an individual characters gear (thats generally how mythic raiding goes the raid comes first, the rewards should be structured that way too).
Similarly M+ stats could be equal to mythic raid but there could be extra procs or bounses which function in dungeons (or focus on party over raid sizes)… a big problem in dungeons is utility disparity, maybe M+ gear could help in this capacity provide missing party buffs, party based defensives etc
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While I 1000% agree I feel like this does not go far enough, maybe we need to have M+ be more on par with LFR… Ok fine, I am in the mood to compromise, on par with normal…
Maybe the trinket that drops from one of the dungeons at the launch of an xpac shouldn’t be able to roll up to 475 ilevel. It makes the game feel like diablo 3.
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Raids are better than M+ IMO. But it’s just that, an opinion. M+ is run far more often yes, but it’s because it’s hard to schedule hours to raid for a lot of people and because it’s easier to pug 4 others vs pugging 9+ others depending on difficulty.
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I do think this is a cool idea and has some potential, but I think splitting up gear too much becomes a tad bit redundant.
Having different gear sets for raid and dungeon would be similar to there being different gear sets for arena and battlegrounds. Could you imagine if rbgs gave better pvp gear for bgs/wpvp and arena gear was only good in arena. The outrage would be next level.
I guess its a question of how much of a meta game should itemisation and gearing be in the context of wow?
Back in vanilla we had resistance gear requirements and through various iterations of tanking have had multiple gear sets (mitigation, EH, threat etc). I think as an easy to learn concept “doing harder content gives generically better gear” ticks the box… but I don’t see where the difficult to master concept gets introduced, this idea was a way to achieve that.
Single target vs cleave gearing for different M+ affixes (gear swapping already happens in mythic raids, though bringing back tier sets might destroy that)… I just dont think mythic/elite level players can have it both ways… you cant complain about covenants resulting in a lack of customisation, then also say having multiple sets of gear requires too much.
I like the challenge of doing different content, I think a lot of players just want to do mythic raiding then epeen it over everyone else (or trivialise) all other content… I don’t think the game should be designed that way. You should be rewarded power based on progress in the content stream you do (with some cross over of power between content types, to a lesser power tier level).
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Itemisation and gearing are definitely the most important aspect of the game, even over prestige. Gear is what motivates people to push to greater heights.
Im fine with there being different gear set ups for certain situations and mostly agree with your point. I just think when they’re broken down too much beyond pve/pvp it becomes a bit much. I think even pve/pvp gear should have a lot of cross over.
This type of gear swaping is good and gives the player a choice rather than forcing them to be in certain gear.
On some of the AoE fights in raid such as Vexiona you would do more damage in cleave gear, but having a few people in single target gear to burn Vex to phase her faster helped out a lot and felt like a meaningful choice.
I also like the idea of being locked into a covenant to excel at either single target or cleave. Even now this exists with corruptions to an extent, unless you have the mental fortitude to farm out multiple sets of corruption gear. I’m pretty much locked into single target haste build, rather than a crit cleave build for sin rogue.
I like to dabble in different content as well, but if i had to farm out very specific gear sets that felt required for each type of content, that would be a pain and I probably just wouldn’t participate in that content.
Having gear be less restrictive in different types of content incentives people to branch out and do different types of content.
I also think M+ not being as lucrative will motivate more people to branch out and get into raiding or pvp for better gear.
totally agree.
5 man spammeable content with no restrictions shouldnt be better than 20/30 man content with being loot locked weekly.
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I raided fairly religiously up until legion (well, until tomb came out). I’ve always enjoyed dungeons more than raiding. Raiding was a chore I did to get better gear and that was it. There was a brief time I actually had fun (WoTLK) with my guild and it was a social experience and I would raid multiple times a week on multiple toons.
And then M+ happened. I was able to achieve the gear levels I wanted to be at and do the content I actually enjoyed doing. Content I’m able to schedule around more easily in my adult life. It’s an alternative path. Raid or die doesn’t need to exist. I will never understand why people seem to think this way. It’s very narrow-minded and doesn’t allow for growth of the game. I’m saddened by the changes to M+, but I’ll keep playing and doing M+ as my primary content until they screw the system too hard. I just hope blizzard doesn’t take the narrow-minded opinions of others who believe raiding epeens are the only way anyone should be able to get the gear they want and reach the level they want their character to be at in the game. If they ever so, then I’ll happily call it quits. m+ is the only reason my sub hasn’t lapsed in the last 4 years. Usually I clear a tier in raiding, done have the desire to farm it and then dip until the next patch. The only damage M+ does to the raid community is inflicted on the raid community by themselves.
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I don’t think any mythic raiders have trouble doing a +15 
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So this is because raiders are whining about they can’t have better gear than M+ players?
Crap.
You can just do M+ too. What’s the problem? If you have good guild, good gear, enough time, it shouldn’t be a problem. 
Edit) I still respect raiders tho. Kinda envy them coz they can do what I can’t, and that is one of the important content in wow.
Can’t Blizzard just give raiders sth only they can get? Like the thing we had in Legion - the legendary thing which can increase your ilvl little bit? So they can have slightly higher ilvl at the end.
I’ve whined about the ilvl change in other threads but after reading more opinions, such as this, made me change my mind I think. With how good the gear rewards from mythic+ are currently, there’s no real incentive to raid at all. For me i basically shrug and go “why bother?” With this change I might actually get into raiding for once.
That where the past. Raids shouldn’t be that end. I mean, we should have different paths to be very good, and master every tipe of content.
Raiders should get a gearing path that make them powerful for raids, Dungeneers should be the best on dungeons. Alternte paths for pve is always a better idea than sticking just to one tipe of content.
You just want raids to be the biggest and more important thing just because it was like that in the good old days. Nowdays, i think that every branch of the gameplay of wow should be treated with the same respect.
I am not saying that dungeons are harder or that raids are. Just that they co-exist in the same level of play, of pros and skill.
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Its better for the game and just makes sense that you can’t spam farm gear that is better than heroic gear in the first few weeks. It will incentives many to get into other content. In the long run with the vault system you will actually have a better time gearing with less RNG in the weekly M+ reward.
To be fair people were whining about the M+ change all over the forums, this post was simply a rebuttal to the spam.
Yea I think having different types of game play to strive for is healthy for the game.
I addressed this in an earlier post and think it would just complicate the system. Raid and dungeons having different gear sets would be like if pvp gear had different gear for bgs and arena. Imagine if rbgs gave better gear for bgs/wpvp and arena gave gear that was only good in arenas.
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Yes, it would complicate the sistem if you do all of those at the time, but i think that most of people just stick to do one tipe of content ( or just seems that way from what it get from the forums) I like to do a variety of things from pve to pvp.
But if the majority of people will be happier with this branches being separated, so be it.
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I like you friend, well said
Yea this was my conclusion as well. I may find the ilvl change annoying but I think it might be the best thing for the long-term health of the game.