I did not, you made that up.
My point is that the pace that impatient vets set is too fast to enjoy.
Ah right, the go through the dungeon as fast as possible thing
The thing that every single MMO does because everyone wants the dungeons to be fast
Dang wow ruining it for people
I don’t think players are to blame for this at all, tbh.
Devs didn’t follow veteran call for less focus on leveling, it came about as part of the game’s natural bloat over time.
Awfully good argument for non-car infrastructure like public transportation, among many other reasons.
But let’s not get political shall we?
So, making it slower for no good reason because the experience doesn’t come from clearing the content but hunting random mobs down like it’s mob grinding classic? Hard pass on that snoozefest.
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This already exists to some degree in follower dungeons and other soloable content. These options provide the equivalent of “side streets” or “bike paths” in traffic: spaces designed for those who want or need a different pace.
However, the argument for adapting to group norms in a shared environment, like random dungeon groups, still holds. The design assumes a shared purpose—completing the dungeon efficiently—and tools like group finders connect players with this expectation in mind.
The presence of solo-paced instanced alternatives like follower dungeons, delves, scenarios etc… strengthens the case for group dungeons operating as they do. These systems allow players to choose the style of gameplay that suits their preferences. But when entering a group environment, much like merging onto a highway, the onus is on the individual to adapt to the system’s norms, not the other way around.
Everything you just said is insane.
“The playerbase doesn’t care about new players.”
You should because new players are what keeps the game from dying.
“Doesn’t matter that people hate every moment of it”
This is a video game not a job. The entire purpose of a video game is to have fun and if people hate it then something is wrong.
It’s not.
I got thrown into that as a new player during wrath.
That’s all people did was twink out and speed run sub lvl 20 dungeons.
After a few weeks of that, I quite literally turned into one of those.
One of my favorite toons in wrath was my lvl 19 arms war, twinked out and I would tank on him.
And that was AS a new player. With harder dungeon layouts and the old quests mind you. No auto completes. Collect 15 corrupted brains from naga, loot doesn’t share, no aoe looting.
You don’t need to baby people and treat them like they are stupid. Give them time to actually play and acclimate to the community.
Why do people keep claiming that I am calling new playerrs stupid? I am not. You all made that up.
Two parts. Part one is true, I’d argue part two is misguided.
I don’t know why some folks on GD act like it’s common sense for dungeons to be a 5 man huddled group of adventurers with tight leashes. What game operates like this? Certainly not most MMOs. Certainly not ARPGs. Certainly not Battle Royales. Certainly not even WoW. Dungeons operate differently from raids, and not all dungeons operate the same, either. There are reasons to split in some dungeons, quests that suggest new players compete for a resource (up to Wrath I believe) and generally there isn’t actually anything to suggest you should be sniffing the rear of the group.
If someone is coming from Diablo, they’d expect their role in an unorganized group is to clear what they can to get a map completed faster. If someone is coming from EQ in an older age, the fastest DPS with some AoE might expect their role to be taking mobs to the tank.
WoW provides zero direction after Exile’s Reach, and I think you take your intrinsic knowledge of the meta for granted.
For clarity, I’m not here to support OP, only to explain any reasons I have to feel the new player experience is complete dogwater. I don’t know how anyone can suggest otherwise.
I remember this too and it is way faster now than it was in Wrath.
Tbqh Wrath is a good example of how players speedrunning dungeons can still be fun for new players if the pace set by the game design is slow enough.
I didn’t say you did. I was generalizing.
Should have seen me tearing through the og maze of wailing caverns on my arms war.
Fast is subjective imo.
My new prot paly. I am pulling 2-3 groups at a time, hitting a wall to los them to me. And this is my 15 years of tanking.
I think I was pulling more in previous years, but my looms also scaled better and made me more op.
Eh it’s the same as it is now. Maze or not, I could sprint through lower blackrock spire back then no problem. And that place was long.
Dungeons are just shorter, so it gives the illusion that they are insanely fast. Like quite a few have been broken up into parts or just flat remade.
Unless we are talking like back in vanilla. Then, everything just hit hard and you didn’t have a solid aoe kit to cleave everything down. So it forced you to pull slow. But imo this isn’t very fun.
You are not wrong, but I don’t see a solution.
I don’t understand those that level toon after toon after toon in dungeons.
How many times can you run before becoming a brain eating zombie.
How many alts do you really need?
Wasn’t remix good enough?
I always 80% quests to level in the past and have plenty of toons to choose from.
Speed runners do not bother me. I usually enjoy speed runners more than players getting offended.
Tbh I think the regular routes we were all leveling through originally were fine.
This random tutorial island then getting tossed into org or sw, just doesn’t work.
The best tutorial was starting in your racial starting area and going from level 1, killing worgs. Learning from the ground up.
Oh it is. I despise the new island. I use it because I can hit lvl 14 in 20-30 minutes.
Zones like the goblins, worgen, draenei, and belf have some of the best intros to the game. STILL.
No idea why they decided to stray away from that.
Let’s be honest most of us are not professional game designers so it’s not necessarily our job to come up with a solution.
Game designers only look at feedback to identify problems, they don’t take our suggestions to fix them seriously.
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I think they worked when the game for the majority of players was about leveling. It just isn’t, anymore, and I say this as someone who was extremely casual when I picked WoW up in earnest for Wrath.
I had aspirations of raiding, but I’m not a social butterfly so I never even made an attempt to network with people.
I think the game is better for that shift in ideology, but I don’t think the game has made a remote effort to commit in the sense that it will admit to the player it’s about end game content.
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#PutTheWorldBackIntoWarcraft
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why would anyone thats seen the content thousands of times for a decade plus want to stay longer in said content? or want to level slower?
Follower dungeons are a thing now and also introduced to new players.
I actually made a thread not too long ago complaining that the XP gains are way too fast and I wanted an option to slow our XP gains at the experience eliminator (Rather than just stopping it all together).