The deep end is end game.
So I’m glad we agree that end game content is a training ground.
I have treated and will always treat it as such. I’m sorry that your pug might be bricked while I learn. Live fire is the only situation to learn in though and the only live fire I can find is your pug. 
soz
Leveling dungeons are not the place to learn anything other than how bad this community can actually be. Which is useful. I’ll give it that much.
So new players learn? Crazy idea I know.
The point is that it is not fun. If new players aren’t having fun they won’t stick around. If WoW can’t get new players it will die.
I’m not sure if we’re agreeing or disagreeing; sarcasm is hard to read in text…
The “end game” shouldn’t be the tutorial. That’s the whole point of the game leading up to it.
Imagine if levels 1-79 actually taught players how to play. Things like “you actually need to interrupt”; “some mobs are dangerous so CC them”; “don’t stand in fire, fire bad”.
Then when they’re 80 and they want to join your Mythic +50 maybe they actually know how to play. Wouldn’t that be a better game for everyone?
But no, here’s what the leveling ‘dungeons’ teach players: your contribution is meaningless, you don’t need to do anything, everyone else will play the game for you, strategy and tactics are irrelevant.
Players who don’t enjoy that and actually want to, y’know, play the game they’re playing leave. Players who do enjoy that turn into the entitled low-effort shirt-bags that make up the overwhelming majority of the max-level “”“”“community”“”“”.
And then we wonder why our game is in the state it is.
Considering it has happened in WoW, idk why you’re unsure how it’s possible.
Did you bother reading the whole conversation, or just zeroing in on that one line and firing off a pithy self-righteous response
Yes.
I tackle one line at a time, because otherwise GD posters will get lost in their own sauce.
The playerbase has said loud and clear that they don’t care about 1) the leveling experience or 2) new players. Blizzard has decided to cater to their preferences. Leveling dungeons are a chaotic clown show, and they are really good with that, because people do, in fact, finish dungeons, and they finish them quickly. Doesn’t matter that people hate every moment of it, as long as they grit their teeth and tolerate it until they hit max level and the “real” game starts … which is in my opinion a bit of a clown show itself. But after the leveling dungeon experience, max level clown-foolery seems tame by comparison.
Ah,. So you’re incapable of diagnosing cause-and-effect. Got it. No reason to engage you further. <3
You could have, at any point, said “I was wrong” or “I misspoke” and achieved the same net effect you just did.
Why do people always think new players are beyond stupid?
Most people could see the group going and figure out they’re supposed to follow them
You could have the most intelligent playerbase available and WoW’s new player experience would still be poor beyond Exile’s Reach.
If you aren’t a veteran, you have zero braincells and need to be treated with kid gloves.
Welcome to GD.
Remember the post about removing the /wave quest from exiles reach? Even though the quest said “type “/wave” at npc” and there was still a post calling for it’s removal because it’s too “confusing” for new players.
Yeah, I can understand quality of life changes, but some things just baffle me. 
That’s true, GD thinks new wow players would struggle to breath if the game told them to do it
I am not certain where I implied new players are dumb or how you got that impression.
New players are certainly inexperienced, and the point is that the group content is extremely unfun for them.
my God, man. Grow a beard and cover that face.
Yea you just implied they wouldn’t be able to figure out they should follow the group
Very big brain plays required to know you should travel with the group
Imagine you’re a new driver just learning to navigate the roads. Eventually, you decide to venture onto the highway during rush hour for the first time. What do you encounter? A highway filled with commuters who are laser-focused on optimizing their travel time. Their only goal is to get to their destination as quickly as possible.
The other drivers are honking, flashing their lights, and speeding past you with impatience. If you hesitate or make a mistake, they don’t explain what went wrong—they just speed away or, worse, force you off the road.
The problem is everyone is driving (or queueing) with a purpose, the groups speeds are synchronized to keep traffic flowing efficiently. When you enter shared spaces like this, you take on a responsibility to align your behavior with the system’s needs. If everyone had to slow down to accommodate one person’s individual pace, the wait time for the entire dungeon queue system slows down to a crawl.