The leveling dungeon experience is an unmitigated trainwreck

I can only imagine how fun and social a bunch of people who just want to power through for XP are gonna be when they’re stuck in the slowed down version with the one new player.

Maybe the new players can have their own queue instead.

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No, it’s not,

It’s an initiation ritual to get acceptance into the group. It’s paying your dues.

There is no “due” owed by any player to any other in a random level 20 dungeon lol.

What is this?

What “group” are you joining? Just the entire population of the game that isn’t going to know you “took your licks” from 4 random rejects in a dungeon?

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It definitely should be unified. It shouldn’t be slowed down only in specific instances because that just punishes having new players in the ground.

Old players will complain that it’s slower but honestly we can deal with it. The people who see the content as a chore to be skipped through are not a group to be catered to.

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Depends on where you think the obligation lies.

Is the group obligated to carry anyone that wants a carry, or is the individual obligated to the group to be prepared and give their best effort?

In the former things go south real quick because more and more people take advantage of a high trust situation.

In the later, you get hazed a little as you learn, but you learn how to do it and what’s expected of you in the social situation of a group project.

People pay their dues to Blizzard. If they are paying a sub then they don’t owe you anything. Least of all in a leveling dungeon that 3 out of 5 of the party could handle if not just the level 11 twink alone.

This is such a dumb concept. Trying to haze someone into “gitting gud” in content that neither requires it nor actually allows it is a top notch excuse to be a jerk though.

Why I’m glad they’ve moved toward more solo and pug friendly progression consistently over the years. Because players with this attitude don’t deserve the efforts of the people they like to abuse.

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Back in the day, the primary way I learned to play was people being patient with me as I screw up.

If I had to endure “hazing” it would cease to be fun and I’d stop playing. I’m not trying to get into a sorority to network with wealthy people I’m trying to play a video game lol.

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Not really sure how that’s possible, but sure, let’s fix that, too. Stacking buff to XP depending on how many mobs you kill.

I think it would be nice to have separate categories. Relaxed experience and speed runs. Barring that, adding follower queues would help.

If a new player falls behind I’ll turn around to pick them up. My desire to go fast doesn’t mean I’m not a team player. Just yesterday I was in a Vortex Pinnacle with 2 buddies and a random Druid healer and DK dps, who very clearly did not know entirely what they were doing. The random healer kept trying to kick the DK for “being bad” and eventually we turned around and kicked the healer instead for being a jackhole. While the new healer joined I ran back and instructed the DK to move through the swirly orbs after attacking them and he moved right on through. Sometimes a bad player is just new and fully capable of learning

The train isn’t slowing down anymore than it has to, however. You don’t improve if you never push yourself

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Yeah, I think Follower Dungeons is the only way for Blizzard to give players who want to do dungeons at a slower pace an option. Even within guilds, my experience has been unless it’s a heavy RP guild doing it for an RP event, they’re still going to want to blow through the dungeon super quick. It’s very rare in WoW to find people who are patient enough to sit through 20+ minute long dungeons teaching a new player.

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when leveling a new character I usually just take what ever random guild invite comes my way so i dont have to deal with it anymore. Most times they dont pay any attention to you. On the rare occasion i have gotten into a guild that actually seems to work with its new members.

The responses in this thread alone would scare off any new player wanting to experience dungeons.

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One person was making fun of me earlier for caring about new players so I feel like I need to offer some backstory.

I am a huge Real Time Strategy fan, and I’ll be the first to admit that the whole genre is on life support. A big reason why the genre is dying is because the it is incredibly demanding and it is so hard to onboard new players.

RTS absolutely has the potential to come back because city builder games are huge among young people, DOTA2/LOL is big with kids and those games operate on similar principles. But it will never come back as long as RTS continues to exclusively cater to aging millennials and gen Xers who are looking for that nostalgia fix from the 90’s.

I love WoW and I am seeing the warning signs of it going down that path.

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If that’s the majority of folks, they should, and there’s certainly a ton more of them than new players.

Mama’s gonna make all of your nightmares come true
Mama’s gonna put all of her fears into you
Mama’s gonna keep you right here under her wing
She won’t let you fly, but she might let you sing
Mama’s gonna keep baby cozy and warm

Of course Mama’s gonna help build the wall

Most solutions only work well at certain scales. What’s good when you’re dealing with a family, small community, tribe or commune doesn’t work well at scale. Of course you treat all your children equally. But equity at a large scale doesn’t occur naturally, so there’s no end to the tyranny required to force it.

You can try to force the entire community to behave motherly and never let the birds out of the nest. But the tyranny required to force that will eventually drive most of the players out.

Better to push them out of the nest so they can learn and prepare themselves instead helping them build a wall.

I’d be interested to know… if they created separate paths for “fast runs” vs. “quest runs” how the queue times would compare.

Edit: follower dungeons should be expanded to all live instances.

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Some people peaked in high school and are still taking it out on others the same way they did then. I get that.

“It’s best for them to be abused over meaningless content so that when they continue to be abused for the slightest mistake in meaningful content they are accustomed to it.”

This is moving away from the “hazing ritual to earn your place” and simply becoming “We’re all emotional jerks that over react over video games from the start to the end while paying forward the treatment we received onto the next man up.”

Really strikes me as a “I beat my child because I was beaten” mentality.

You can be that guy if you want. It’s not my bed to sleep in so I’ll continue to be not that guy.

Take it to Twitter bro. We’re talking about behavior in leveling dungeons. Not redistribution of your epics to starting players. Calm down.

This (dramatically exaggerated) problem is already solved. WoW does not get new players.

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It’s better that they learn in the deep end

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