You have an untimed version. They just need to remove the lockouts on M0s, or make the gear be in a chest at the end of the dungeon.
Also, making heroics harder would also be a huge help.
The old key system did not teach players the dungeons. I ran +10s all the time in DF, and the amount of players that didn’t have a clue about the mechanics was just crazy high.
I think Blizzard saw this issue as well, I had so many bricked keys in the 10-15 range in DF, and these players all have appropriate M+ scores that I would take.
Just another idiotic comment made by an elitist that has no clue what they’re talking about.
Literally no one in here asked for easy rewards. And your nonsense is just that: lower keys didn’t somehow magically give out the best gear. You’re just making crap up to act elitist. So I still stick to my comment: get over yourself.
For you. Not for everyone. There are people at different levels of play in this game. M+ did not leave them out of their lower bracket before.
We all know why the changes were made. The stupid part is that it did nothing to solve the problem with Heroics being stupidly easy and useless. It did make 0s out of reach for people and made keys nonexistent for others.
We also had whiners complain M0 was too easy. Now those same people don’t even run it because it’s too hard. The irony.
The assumption was made that Delves would fill that gap for the lower tier players. It sort of does, but Blizzard failed to implement Delves correctly to make it season long content.
The evolution of end game tried to fix things, but all it did was cause what you see here: a divide where elitists sit here and talk down to others.
Do you think it’s polite or appropriate to crap all over someone else’s sense of progression? There’s no need to look down your nose at the Everyman. Most people weren’t sweat lords. Most people were doing keys in their range, if doing any at all. You come across as extremely tone deaf. I have secondhand embarrassment reading your post.
I’m probably oldschool but wouldn’t m0 let you learn the mechanics? As it’s not timed it does let you fail if you wish to learn mechanics, this is mostly what I did early on before m+ wasn’t relased. As for routes and mob counts we have addons for that and you can practice some pulls in follower dungeons.
I also think it depends who you find, if I was tanking an old +2-+7s before they downscaled I would pull it the same way that people pulled heroic dungeons as a tank.
They did what players wanted and now they complain, seems like a common theme in the wow community these days.
I should probably clarify what I mean with “players”, basically people who play wow for a living, streaming on twitch and other platforms or big youtubers.
pre-key changes, the average player was not jumping into +10 to “learn”. they did use m0 to learn.
the m0 today is not what it was even 2 seasons ago. that, plus the current dungeons feel overtuned, make getting started in m+ a problem with no real learning curve (i.e. m0-9)
this feels a lot like WotLK into Cata. Heroic dungeons were grossly overtuned then. they are pretty close to that now, at least in the m+ arena.
and that is part of why i have waited until i more or less over gear the content i intend to run (working to +4/5 for 2k score)
I’m not an elitist at all, I hate M+ with a burning passion, but I get why Blizzard made these changes.
Of course they didn’t but low keys were easy rewards, that is why Blizzard fixed it finally. Just like flying was a mistake, the initial version of M+ was a mistake, it is just hard for Blizzard to make changes when players get used to things.
Low keys were popular because they were easy loot farms.
I don’t Mythic raid, and I barely touch M+, how am I an elitist again? I just understand the dilema Blizzard was in with M+ just showering players in easy gear. I know you won’t understand this, because you are the typical selfish gamer, only sees their point of view and nothing else.
Love these ad hominems, keep em coming!!!
All hail Sendryn here!! The guru of WoW development.
Nope
Anyone that disagrees with the whiners in these threads is labled with some really nasty lables.
The entitlement being displayed here is kind of sad.
Your attitude claims otherwise and I have zero interest in reading whatever other drivel you posted afterwards. Have a better day trying to belittle someone else.
I’m probably not the best player to speak about it but I don’t find new m0s much more challenging than old m0s, the biggest changes are mostly healers and tanks having to adapt to the TWW changes. We did have a couple challenging m0s dungeons before.
It’s a bit the same problem with cata heroics, wotlk didn’t have any really hard heroic dungeons so the jump was quite high but people often forget how TBC heroics were still pretty hard. I think people will adapt in time but for sure some people might hit their cap sooner when content skill requirement rise quicker. I would personally recommend to make heroic dungeons a bit harder to smooth the curve or maybe like some suggested heroic+.
Not only that but the tank and heals changes, the moving of mythic vault loot to +10, and at least a +9 for guilded right? Absolutely brutal right now and the bar is so high that only the true M+ players will thrive.
The problem before the scaling changes is that you outgeared M0 in a matter of days. And being able to blast a dungeon means you don’t end up learning the mechanics properly. Now that M0 actually has some difficulty to it, you can use it to learn the mechanics without worrying about keys and timers.
This makes ZERO sense. Keys 2-5 are a cake walk. A 2 is no different than an M0.
Go do some delves, M0’s and bam, you’re good to go to start the grind. Do all the dungeons on 2-3 then work your way up. It’s what every other M+ player does. Plus it’s an easy way to learn the mechanics.
Don’t bother with this poster. They are a troll. They play the victim and belittle others constantly. Should be banned imo. They deter new players from using the forums. 30k post of this nonsense.
They are not even remotely hard unless you are severely under geared. You don’t really care though. You just want to chime in for the usual attention and to up your post count. You are the biggest deterrent to other players on these forums. I hope you realize that.
I see you hid your profile again to hide your behavior. You have zero progress in M+ or any kind of raiding and you have zero logs. So, this is either an alt in another guild or you literally pay a sub to troll these forums. That’s funny.
My problem with m0’s is that they’re hard and you don’t get invited to them unless you already outgear the content. Like my 587 warlock will have a hard time getting into a group even though it drops 593