Yes and no. Again, the lack of contextualization is key here. The High Elf wars on the US forums was the sole reason they gave in. I want to remind everyone how often those topics arose on a daily or weekly basis. Looking back at it, it’s simply insane. Two groups fighting about a 3D-model like there is no other day, although lore-wise it made totally sense to give the Alliance-players a full fledged High Elf race.
The Horde didn’t suffer such consequences at all. Sure, we got “unfinished races” to speak in the communities’ term but they are actual desirable ones people associate with the game. Mercifully said, the Alliance got two desirable races out of this pack while we got four but this number is subjective and I do not want to go the same round again by posting current player numbers about the races.
This reads more like victim blaming than anything else. They are the game designers, so it’s in their power to give the players what they want. They have pulled Mag’har Orcs out of WoD, so why couldn’t they bring out those Arakkoa for the Alliance? The game was always about mirroring two factions. And yes, I ignore the “lore-consistency” of the Mag’har for the sake for this discussion because this was something the Horde-players wanted for a long time. The same generosity was not returned to the Alliance-players unless they rebel and whine in the forums so we both can have a discussion about this.
No, they couldn’t without losing the player pool and money in the process. Unlike the classic team, Ion Hazzikostas and his team do not free transfers and faction changes. At all. On top of that, the problem has been for years ignored and the question several times dodged in the infamous Forbes interviews which occur yearly.
Most of them without trying to repeat myself.
Again, lack of contextualization. I took the liberty to bring up the original issue for now which I totally agree with: Why does one player faction gets completely new designed mounts while the other does not? The Bee-mount is the reaction to this and there was plenty more to discuss about this in the past.
Didn’t the humans in WoD lose one of the free out-of-jail cards which was also a big problem back then? I do not recall it completely, to be honest.
How exactly? What did they for the Alliance which was not a reaction of an on-going problem?
In retrospect, everything was about the Horde and Sylvanas, no? Burning a tree, getting four costly CGI-videos around an Orc-character and forgiving the evil Banshee so she can come back when we need her again.
The problem with the narrative is that it doesn’t work on a bigger level. What WoW needs is to have a shared Alliance and Horde council, similar how Legend of Korra has managed to unite the four bender nations. The story needs go from there on, where both factions work together to keep the evil-doers in check. That’s what they should have done since Legion by opening up to the next big chapter. The war-effort did not work out from the player’s and game perspective (which is why they confirmed there will be no more faction war) and it was not hard to see why. They wrote themselves into a corner, too hyped up about an idea which had no hands or feet.
The developers see the SL-story as part of the Alliance. Thrall and Baine did not matter at all. Dragonflight will be a Horde-story again.
But Blizz DID still give it, which definitely speaks to them listening, however grudgingly. Still have to give it credit for listening
I mean, it IS pretty silly.
If the horses fit the Kul’Tiran theme, then it is what it is. They fit fine. It’s not as fancy as a dinosaur but if it fits, it fits. That’s some unfortunate pragmatism but horses fit really well. That’s some unfortunately amazing consistency, plus Horde, as far as I know, can’t get the bee. Horses stings, though. I get why people were upset. That’s why it’s unfortunate that it fit so well. I don’t not get it, I’m just breaking it down to the very ugly bare-bones, and I imagine that makes me come off as callous.
You said Broken at some point. Not sure how many others would’ve really fit in without some serious butt-pullery. Maybe, MAYBE furbolgs. I really can’t see Arakkoa fitting into the Alliance at all. It’s a shut-off, highly reclusive race that has only ever looked out for its own interests. Blizz kinda gave Alliance all it really could there.
No, not really. They had a racial so good they could run double DPS trinkets over a medallion and a single DPS trinkets. Those times were messy.
Blizz could’ve given Mag’har in a different way than than how it was done. It’s like Blizz forgot Garadar and the many Mag’har Orcs that worked with Garrosh existed. There didn’t need to be an AU butt-pull.
Weren’t Dark Irons and Wildhammers much-requested? Not only did The Alliance get Dark Irons, it got Wildhammer customizations built into the already existing Bronzebeards. 2 for 1 special. It got Lightforged which was a huge mirror to Mag’har, however retroactively, especially considering the way Mag’har got introduced. It got the High Elf customization AND Void Elves too in another 2 for 1 deal, though it took longer. Alliance was in no way slighted. That I will blame players for. They can choose what they play. If they don’t like it, that’s on them. They got some cool things too, and I’m pretty sure they’ve been playing those.
I feel like you just agreed with me despite the “no.” We actually got some common ground! That was the other side of the result of the big switch: the risk of losing the other players they raided with. If they were sweaty enough to fork over the money in the first place, they were likely to fork more over for that advantage later on, and with their guild mates. Overwhelming advantage => huge swap => overwhelming advantage nerfed => comfortable players don’t swap because no overwhelming advantage and risk of losing friends => this unfortunate situation. We’re actually finally on the same wavelength for the most part. I’m glad we kept talking. I think we’re both on the page that ToT never should’ve happened the way it did, but we’re at the cusp of having the ripples of it snuffed out if everything goes ideally.
I really didn’t care to watch my faction AND Saurfang get torn down in HD CG. Those were big HD kicks to sensitive regions. I don’t even blame The Alliance for being mad over the tree. Anyone that believed in Thrall’s vision of The Horde was also very likely to have been upset by it (Saurfang, had he been in-character, would have killed her on the spot. He threatened the same to Garrosh in Northrend). I don’t ever want to see Sylvanas again. The story spent WAAAAAAAAAY too long focusing on her.
We definitely agree on this. This 100%. Y’know, I actually ended up liking you quite a bit. Most people would’ve gotten worked up and emotional and pooped all over the conversation by now but you stayed cool and we actually got somewhere. Gotta give you a virtual handshake. I respect you for that.
I just want a good story. I don’t want it to be tied to one faction with the other taking a back seat. I just want to be a dumpy little adventurer that goes on dumpy little adventures. Those are more fun than being Goku and saving the universe every expansion.
Grudgingly is the key here. It all leads to their “traditional stubbornness” which Ion Hazzikostas acknowledged a while ago. It’s the typical “we know better”-attitude which cost them so much. And this also goes into the faction bias. They always know what’s apparently best for the game but they do not represent both sides equally and what players want.
I do agree that horse work well for the given race (Humans, Kul Tirans) but you simply cannot release some recolors with assets taken from MoP and WoD and mash it together for 10.000 gold per exalted reputation mount. It was just idiotic and they knew this problem would arose. Sometimes I wonder how incompetent these people can be for the money they earn.
They had actually so many opportunities with the Alliance in giving them not another human race but they didn’t want to waste their time with this too much.
Furbolgs, those Alliance fish people (they have even two of those races now), birds, snakes and Dryads, one of the Goblin cartels, the Broken, the High Elves. Blizzard centered the Alliance around humans and humans only which hurts their race diversity a lot in a game which is supposed to be “high fantasy”. At the moment the Alliance feels like Final Fantasy 14 where everything looks like a human variation.
Ah, yes, I remember it now. I think the change was justified.
I think this has something to do with the Y’rel setup for Turalyon during 10.2 or 11.0 where they join forces so the Alliance will gets the Villain bat for once.
Yes and no. This is a more community-related perception problem which surfaced with the Anti High Elf discord people harassing the players in not being a true “x” (insert race) because you’re not an authentic player race character. “Lead Writer” Steve Danuser jumped onto this topic on twitter where he somewhat confirmed that you can play as your desired subrace as a RP-feature but it doesn’t help that people will still harass you because of this.
To get to the point: I didn’t know this but Wildhammer dwarves are supposed a bit taller and leaner compared to the muscular Bronzebeard- and Iron Dark Dwarves. In other words, you’re not a real “Wildhammer”-dwarf regardless of the customization options.
In reality though, we had several Horde-races which included subraces into their customization kit (Mag’har Orc and their clans comes into mind). What is needed here are glyphs and different voice packs for all races who need them, like the Void Elves. And a few heritage armors/race text changes. Best solution to all of this would be still a subrace customization option for the character creator.
I think we were always on the same page but bad things happened to the Alliance which always gets reduced to “whining” and “bias”. Some parts are actually true and Blizzard never made an attempt to either apologize or correct their mistakes in time. And when they do, it hits the Alliance harder than the Horde. But I’m glad the system collapsed due their incompetence, it only showed to all of us that they had no idea what they were doing. They can change skill-based numbers every week if they wanted to but obviously they are very hesitant in losing their faction-change money income.
I think it’s fair to focus on the main characters of each expansion but this also requires better coordination. The team is capable of doing this with Chen Stormstout and Li Li Stormstout through several expansions and the related quests. This should have been further encouraged with other well known characters from every expansion, even if they need to put onto the “bus” (= sidelining) so they stay relevant across the decade.
The tree storyline was apparently an idea of the former head writer (Afrasabi or how he was called) and even disliked within the studio. Didn’t help either they were incompetent to change the storyline even after they had the power to do it. But it looks like they are finally starting to do some intelligent writing for once, like the Lor’themar/Greymane conversation at the end of this expansion but this only happens because the writers finally start to realize what organic writing looks like? Either way, they need to bring the Horde council together with the Alliance so both of them can start having actual interesting storylines which involves around mysterious assassins (as seen as in Chromies mini story), working together despite differences and starting a new city where both faction can live together, as we have seen it several times in Hearthstone. Ironically, the Hearthstone artworks are more “Warcraft” than the regular game can provide at this point.
I can return the compliment, thank you. I don’t see any reason to get worked up about fictional characters but developers are a whole other story. They represent professionals but for some reasons they make beginner mistakes which most decade-long players cannot simply not comprehend at this point. The game does not need a permanent gameplay revolution, which is why I think FF14 works so well. It’s just so sad to see that Ion Hazzikostas only changes his stance after his job started to be on the line.
We all want these stories. If the team can’t handle it with DF, then I do hope the next people - under Microsoft’s supervision - will bring back the game to its former glory.
There might seem like there is a Horde bias but there really isn’t. The alliance community is a selfish one. In dreanor when Alliance was getting unique mounts the horde got wolves the entire expansion but no one batted an eye cause both were happy. Moving into BFA alliance got horses on almost all their factions and horde got unique mounts, horde the easily happy faction was fine, the alliance being the selfish faction was not.
Seems a bit like a egomaniac to think they would like someone else’s post to get your attention. This given that as far as I know you’ve responded to anyone tagging you. The only people left are new bloods who don’t read the entire thread or the diehard fight to the ends like you.
Best addition to alliance ever, you never hear horde complaints on dwarves.
I don’t know I’m tempted to make a light forged rogue for stealth operation orbital strikes with its racial.
Where did I state this remark in the given relation of yours?
Nowhere. It’s one of the problems which arise with not having either actual races or subraces.
It may very well be that they consider the story enough, especially if they read forums, to satisfy Alliance players. “Oh, well we keep making them the winners, why are they mad?” sort of thinking. I think they’ve done some things out of good will that they think will land, like with some of the dwarf variations, but I do get why Alliance players get frustrated. It doesn’t help that, on top of normal Stormwind Humans, Alliance has gotten 2 more fitting, but still very much human-y humans.
There’s a really nice-looking one but a horse is still a horse. They’re the humans of mounts. They sure do get the job done but they’re so white-bread. That seems like a very Alliancey sort of problem. The shining heroes that look boring and have boring but very reliable transportation.
Of those, I think Furbolgs would’ve had the best chance of working well, as they’ve got every reason to join with The Alliance after so much antagonism between Furbolgs and The Horde. I like the idea of Dryads but I really do wonder how they would’ve handled that. Might’ve had to make Keepers playable just to add a male option and that would’ve been brilliant. I think they’d have had some serious mount troubles with them, though. Worgen-style movement would’ve worked but they would look atrocious trying to ride anything.
I don’t think Sethrak or Arakkoa would’ve been easy to put into The Alliance. The only friendly Sethrak are buddies with the Vulpera, and Arakkoa only really seem to fight when they’re in cults or believe they have an overwhelming advantage. Too busy preening to get anything of real note done, and too up their own backsides to ask for help unless they’re exceedingly desperate. Probably went right along with Yrel on the AU side of things like the Ogres did. You might actually get to see those ones playable down the line, though, if they ever do bring Yrel back.
I don’t know enough about Jinyu to really speak on them. Broken could’ve worked, though. Maybe not as well as Light-forged but they’re viable.
That right there could be interesting. Also interesting that you bring up body-types. Did you know Grom was supposed to be slender for an Orc? Leaner build n’ all? It was made a deal of that Garrosh was such the opposite, being bald and bulky instead of lean and hair-headed. I’m sure they could’ve done something for Warsongs to accommodate that.
No surprise there. Apologizing means admitting they’re wrong.
Until 9.2.5 it’s still hitting The Alliance. I want it to get here already. There’s some Alli races I like that I’d like to be able to play with Horde.
Same.
Naturally. They do like their faction switch income.
I hope something good comes to pass story-wise, but I don’t think their writers are up to the task. They haven’t been for at least as far back as WoD and BFA, and they’re not giving me much confidence with the absolute mess that is SL’s story. Can’t really take the villain seriously when he actively sabotaged his own plans constantly and could’ve won easily at just about any point up until we got the Crown of Wills or whatever it’s called.
Sad indeed. Hoping against hope we’ll see some decent writing.
You know why? They were the enemy of every dwarf player that played in the old world. Adding them to the Alliance would be like adding Draenei to the Horde and make them co-leaders of the orcs. At least with that one players Draenei were not fighting Orcs for 3 full expansions …
I like them because they’re cool-looking VOLCANO DWARVES. I really don’t care that they were enemies with the other dwarves, and I’m diehard Horde.
It’s okay. We can be buddies now and actually fight the bad guys together instead of separately. We can be like that party in ZF or like The Argent Crusade, or Earthen Ring.
Too many councils, not enough kings. Tell him to come back when he can grow a proper beard. Just try not to make him become too much like his grandfather. We don’t need more firelords causing havoc.
They were until Moira moved into Ironforge with her Dark Iron followers. This is the daughter of your king and his dark iron grandson. It was kinda the point to use the once enemy of the dwarves as that’s what brings the best drama. It’s not like they came outta nowhere it had a few years of lore buildup.
Not to mention their lore is stupid deep, take but a moment and learn a crazy amount of history given to you just from vanilla dungeons.
I was a dwarf player too, but the lore of dark iron is concrete enough to warrant their joining. Even the war of three hammers never specified who started it, me personally I always thought that the dark iron were more victims. They lost the most during the exile of Ironforge being the owners of the deep gem mines. Then after the loss in the war of three hammers, full blown slavery to fire elementals.
Sonething we learned in vanilla by the way. So since wows inception and creation of their villain dark iron they already set up the political ties to the throne. Infact again according to chronicle, the only reason we kill Nelfarion and Ragnaros is because she was purposely telling the world about them.
This isn’t even mentioning the fact that Moira only met the Dark Iron ruler because she was running from the fact her dad thought having a daughter was terrible, that in bronzebeard society dwarf women had roles they could and could not fullfill. A trait dark irons did not possess despite being “the villains.” You’ll find my knowledge on dark iron extensive, they were my favorite race, because even small looks into their lore you’ll find they are hardly the villains, it’s just the world that portrays them that way.
You can say all the things you like and I am glad you like them (kind of apparent as a Horde Troll player you would like villains). Seriously I know there are a LOT more that like DI than people like me.
I just never will accept them. I don’t care why Moira ran away, she did. No loyalty to her father. I enjoyed killing her in the dungeon.
Main recurring protagonists: all alliance (except thrall and baine who do nothing)
Dalaran as a major hub focus in multiple expansions: alliance
All of the class hall fantasies in legion: based on alliance
Most expensive zones in the game with most dev time and attention: alliance
Thalassian models, one of the most popular models in the game: given to alliance after 15 years of moaning
Horde has:
-more mount diversity, sometimes
-more people who play the faction for the 1 percent of progression players
I was alliance main for 6 years until my friend group dragged me to the horde. I know more about dark iron than all the horde races and been trying to catch up on troll lore ever since. I liked villains as alliance too, unlike most white knight Paladin fan boys on the alliance. I chose zandalari after dwarf → dark iron → Zandalari, because troll lore isn’t that far off thematically from dwarves. A stubborn race with a bygone golden age, the world seems to kick them down every chance it gets.
I was 60 /40 Alliance since launch day through Vanilla. Mid BC my Horde characters came along. who could not want to follow heroes like Thrall, Cairne or Vol’Jin? The Alliance simply had nothing to compare.
Then the Alliance got Varian and Horde got his counterpart Garrosh - hated both. Was Horde till the Sylvanas simps took over the story. Been Alliance since and now that Lich Queen Barbie is gone I am back to playing my Tauren again