Alliance always get better zones and cities and stories. You also get to have a better fantasy.
Horde is just in a neverending coup of itself and we don’t get to experience the unity of the horde that Thrall’s horde was selling.
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This is true during BfA - but Dazar’alor was designed as a raid first and foremost. All they had to do were to place the NPCs better.
Boralus was such a better city in every way.
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Nope. What you ultimately are asking for is developers to compel players to act this way or that when all they can do is add or remove incentives that swing pendulums.
No. It started when zones started getting equalized between Alliance and Horde, with Alliance getting mad about the redistribution in Cata. Then the MoP thing happened with the Troll racial. Then, in WoD, since players were already entrenched and things got rebalanced, they had no incentive to go back unless they wanted to pvp. That’s the root of it.
Because they saw a potential repeat of ToT coming and nipped it in the butt before it caused another round of pendulum swinging and backlash. Actually did their jobs but it looks like it was just perceived as a slight.
Yep. Cross-faction is a good thing. Story is a whole other can of worms, though.
You have High Elf customizations under that umbrella. Alliance finally got High Elves, just with a slightly different name. If players are complaining about that, that’s pretty ungrateful.
With the rest, they all fit pretty well, and LF Draenei are extremely pretty. Do you really think as many people would play those rock monsters called Broken? Some? Yes. I doubt as many as would play Lightforged. Alliance got some pretty fitting races. It got some really powerful ones, at that. It should be grateful. It’s not Horde bias that Alliance players don’t like their allied races. That’s player culture. That’s on the players. What was Blizz meant to do? It gave Alliance all races that fit and many that had solid racials. That’s pretty fair, AND Blizz followed the story it had established to that point, so they, surprisingly, made sense for each faction to get.
Addressed this up a little higher. Blizz learned from its mistake. No pendulum shifts.
No it isn’t for the reasons listed above. Blizzard can’t reach out and mind-control the players like a priest can in WoW. Players do as they please. There was no strong incentive to return that wasn’t a pendulum-type change that would have reversed the roles of the aggrieved.
All that happened was Thrall’s Horde was obliterated, then doubled down on, then obliterated harder, then given a council treatment. It was always supposed to be the good guys, just a little more hard-edged. The point got missed somewhere so we had the whole mess in BFA and onward.
In an odd twist, it HAS been supported with cross-faction. Say an Alliance race is better than a Horde one now? Cool. You can min/max and get the best of both. You are no longer “penalized” for playing the blue team. You have access to progression no matter what you pick. You don’t have to just look at the story and how Alliance always beats those bad ol’ Horde monsters to feel good about being Alliance. The Alliance IS pushed and supported through its story. It’s just the issue with the players that was the main thing. No reason to change if there isn’t an overwhelmingly powerful advantage on the opposite side. People want to be the strongest/best. If that’s not driving them, they usually don’t care enough to make a switch.
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I mean, by this point it’s not exactly a secret. Why do you think Blizzard is allowing cross faction play? You would think that’s a SCREAMING tacit admission, right? You’re literally yelling that the house is on fire after it’s burned down to smoking ruin, the fire department has hosed down what’s left, and the insurance adjuster has finally showed up.
Horde will always be the fav. We just need to accept it and move on.
Apparently you care so much for this, why did you not spoke up during TBC then?
I haven’t played during Cataclysm but this sounds actually reasonable. The rest not so much.
Lack of context here. We’re back in Legion where no “High Elf”-customization is available or ever planned. It’s clear to everyone they backpaddled their idea due the backlash. This has nothing to do with being ungrateful, this is the natural cause of a compromise situation nobody asked for.
It is hard to say if they would have been appreciated more. I was never a Draenei-fan and still wait to make one with the possible shamanistic heritage armor. For me, they are too human to take them seriously as an outer space race but let’s not go off topic here too much. They were useless at all, despite having a space ship.
It is Blizzard’s fault in not acting upon it. Just before you wrote about how much they learned from the swinging pendulum and yet you find it fair to give the other faction, which should make half of the player base, low priority races which will no one play.
They have enough races at their disposal which could become playable. You know this, we all know this. There is no point in repeating something which have people already discussed to death. You cannot blame a whole player base for the issues. They are the symptoms but not the cause.
I agree here with you, the writing leaves much to be desired.
Times will be better if they release the mixed guild-faction feature.
TBC is not relevant to this conversation. We are not working with the same devs or experience level of devs or players if we go back to TBC. That Belves got changed anyway down the line says the devs listened, though.
Ignoring it will not change its impact. The impact hit HARD. You can not like it, you can call it “unreasonable” or whatever, but distaste for it does not change its impact. That was tangible impact that is easy to research.
But Alliance has it now, though. Shouldn’t it be happy? If the players are still complaining at this point, that looks like serious lack of gratitude. “You listened to me and my concerns? Horde favoritism!” That’s how that looks.
No, I definitely can blame the players. If Alliance didn’t like races that fit it near-perfectly, that maintained quite a bit of internal lore consistency and thematic consistency (minus the Void Elves, of course, but those are now the Alliance’s answer to High Elves which ARE internally consistent), yeah, it’s the Alliance’s fault. Blizz tried. It stings, but it is not incorrect.
Eh, no, I don’t think it was unreasonable to not act on it. Blizz can’t solve every problem. It’s not a magical hive-mind that can fix everything. That’s on Alliance for not liking it. Blizz wasn’t going out of its way to upset Alliance players with those races. What could have been reasonably given with that level of internal consistency was given. Same with Horde, it just so happened that Horde had more interesting races to the public at large.
It’s reasonable to blame Blizz for what happened with ToT. At this time, with all the adjustments made, Blizz has reasonably responded to its mistake and tried not to repeat it. The problem The Alliance is facing now is a player culture problem for reasons repeated ad nauseum. Blizz can no longer fix it because it has now, with Cross-faction, really done all it can to fix it. This is where players have to step in. They could have moved back before but they were comfortable and didn’t have enough of a reason to move. After going Horde, it wasn’t those players’ problem anymore. There wasn’t anything else Blizz could do that wouldn’t result in a bad pendulum swing.
I agree. I really hope they do, and do it well.
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It is, otherwise I wouldn’t have addressed it. But we have been discussing about the Belves plenty of times in the past already.
It’s not as important as the problems the games faces now. “Equalizing”, as you put it, was one of the contributing factors why cross faction became a thing in the long run.
Missing context here to a very deep problem. They reluctantly gave the Alliance those High Elf options after having five years of massive outcries globally. They never were supposed to get them but the backlash was simply too massive to ignore it.
It’s a matter of perception in the end. It was one of the few victories the Alliance truly deserved - but not without having an uphill battle and constant compromises. Blizzard does not deserve any praise for the problems they caused in the first place.
You can blame player culture when it comes to problems they caused (tanking comes into mind) but not to game features which are not maintained. It’s Blizzard’s fault not acting upon it. And it’s a double edged sword you try to argue here. Why should this not take a priority while they apparently, coming from your own words, learned from the dwarf racials before. You didn’t suggest bias here or intentionally not caring about certain aspects, no? Then what is it exactly?
What you actually meant to say is that they picked an environment and races which would suit the lore and story.
The easiest example for this - with an actual commentary from Ion Hazzikostas - are the Battle for Azeroth Alliance mounts and the following effect it had which backs my claim up here. I’ll bring it up again if needed but he basically said that thought dozens of recycled horses would fit the Kul Tiran lore. Didn’t change the fact this was a very poor attempt to cover the actual problems of overpriced and lazy rehash copy-paste mounts the Alliance got but they made it up with two different mounts then.
I get why they did it, on a meta level, but it was their fault for not representing the Horde better during Legion as well. And as far as I can tell, they haven’t learned a single thing ever since Shadowlands, which is, again, very Alliance-focused.
We will see if these changes will actual help or not. I think they are aware that these changes will do nothing in the grand scheme which is why they keep the already finished cross guild faction for the 10.2 patch, so they can drop it - again - with the separate hands-transmog feature. It’s always the same cycle and I do not like the idea people will have to wait over two years to get a simple request done.
Bro almost every ally char I see is a Dark Iron Dwarf or a Void Elf.
Dark Iron for broken racials and Void Elf for people that want to look pretty and RP as a High Elf.
The allied races for Alliance are EXTREMELY popular, even if YOU don’t find them appealing.
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I have no doubt that you will encounter someone on your chosen Alliance-server (Proudmoore) with such characters.
It depend whom you ask here. The majority of players or myself. We have data for the first from a while ago which indicates a very strong possibility that this race isn’t played very often which includes the Kul Tiran and Mechagnomes at the lowest bottom.
https://wowanalytica.com/statistics/region/us
These are samples but it paints a visible picture to the situation. Or can you tell us how you would read those statistics?
Blame the laws in California surrounding contests.
Blizzard had nothing to do with this. This is so well documented that any time someone mentions it, you know their post is little more than an application to clown college.
Like some certain someone claiming a “stolen” election. Everyone immediately knows you’re a fool.
It is a mere distraction from the actual points. The game was much younger then, the devs were far more inexperienced, and I was much younger then. It’s a bit of and ad hominem.
Yes it is because it’s the crux of the problems Alliance faces now. It was ultimately why cross-faction had to be introduced. That was the point of no return.
But they actually gave it to Alliance players.
Wasn’t a problem, it was that Alliance didn’t like what it got. It didn’t like its compromise. Blizz actually did listen, though. Gotta give credit where it’s due. Alliance could’ve been told to grin and bear it. It did not have the power in that situation, Blizz did.
Blizzard did not cause a race problem, Alliance just didn’t like what it got. What was Blizz meant to do? Not give Alliance thematically, internally lore-consistent races? That’s completely on Alliance players for not liking them. Alliance’s features are maintained.
The problem arose because there isn’t a sufficient amount of Alliance players to keep things moving quickly. This was caused by MoP-WoD situation, where a fixed racial meant that all the people that jumped ship from the Alliance were too comfortable in their new Horde homes to bother caring enough to go back to Alliance. It then became perceived that The Horde was the go-to for PvE. Blizz fixed the racial. People just didn’t go back. That’s on the players. They could have chosen to go back at any time. They even had the tantalizing Human racial to lean in on. They had Alliance BIAS to lean in on, yet they did not go in enough numbers. Player. Culture. Problem. Hate it, despise it, that’s how it is. The facts are right there. They cannot be missed.
I meant to say exactly what I typed. But, again, what is Blizzard meant to do? Give Alliance off-the-wall BS races? How many more would’ve actually been good fits?
How dare Blizzard stay internally consistent and give the Alliance races that fit it and mounts that fit those races!? Those monsters! Saving costs by staying internally consistent with the story it wrote… How could a company do such a thing?
I’m not going to call something bias when it wasn’t. ToT’s Horde racials being indisputably better? Definitely biased towards the Horde. Human racials in WoD? Alliance bias. Alliance players not liking races and mounts that fit and liking Horde races better? That’s on Alliance players’ heads, not Blizzard’s. Blizzard tried really hard to make Alliance happy. I hate defending Blizz too, because I’m mad about SL, but one has to be fair or intellectual honesty is gone.
Beats Horde with Villain bat, kills yet another Warchief off, makes Alliance look like heroes again and gives Varian an uber sendoff
That’s not representing Horde better. This is what bugs me. Alliance gets all this lovely attention absolutely lavished on it, yet people still fly to their keyboards to lambast Blizz. What is it meant to do? Will these players not be satisfied until Horde is deleted? This is why I say it’s a player culture problem. Alliance players must take accountability for their hands in things. Some of them realize this. Some do not, and some rail against it because it’s easier to blame something else. It’s not all Blizzard’s fault.
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying it represented The Alliance well in SL or are you saying “Horde favoritism” in a roundabout way?
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lol dude you ratio’d him into the moon.
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The like counter, you mean?
No, it’s just an alt-army of a person who wishes for me to reply to him and a few of my regular follower. The current number is actually just 5 with you.
(edit: grammar)
I’m going to write you later back during my lunch break “Kixi”, it’s 5:13 am here. Until later.
Idk man… I feel nothing but alliance bias when i play this game. 80 honor per loss on horde side but 400 per loss on alliance side.
Fake ratio booooooo
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Well it’s not my alts. Rawrlol is not me, nor is Rawrlol any of my alts. I don’t play the alt army to smash the like button game. I’m not so invested in an internet argument that I need, that badly, to feel validated by internet strangers. Some people behave that way. I am not one of them. If my post was liked by that many, it is because that many agreed with it or it’s alts that aren’t mine. It stood on its own.
I hope, by then, we’ll have found some common ground. I do believe cross-faction fixes a great deal of these problems, but, really time will tell.
You can check my account and see my alts by the names of my pets. You will find that none of the likes is from an alt of mine.
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I’m currently half through it.
No, it’s not you and I can confirm this as well.