I don’t get it, they were doing it to animals. Isn’t that the same thing as eating an animal? Are alliance vegans?
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Well, Mana Wyrms were the common targets Blood Elves used in Dalaran, but anything with mana was fair game. Including people. In fact, Vereesa’s twin children were almost abducted by her blood elven cousin, who believed he’d be able to drain a lot of mana out of them because of their half-elven blood, and that they wouldn’t die as fast.
That is murder and isn’t not allowed. Again I don’t get high elfs eating animals is okay, sucking mama out of items is okay but not taking mana from animals before eating them.
High elf’s were an after though, in wc3 they said all high elf’s became blood elf’s. Probably the reason for killing animals for food but not mana thing. Really silly.
Back to the main point morality isn’t that different in both factions. It’s just horde been portrayed evil to many times. Horde would fight to resolve issue, like for resources but it’s not like the alliance won’t. They attacked the horde for azeroite in BFA
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Draining mana from a living being is an extremely painful experience tantamount to torture. There’s a difference between killing an animal before butchering it, or butchering it while it’s still alive.
Not really. High Elves remained a part of the Alliance units even after the Fall of Quel’Thalas. It was known Jaina had a number among her forces in Kalimdor, for example, and there were also those among the Kirin Tor, and those who had followed Alleria to Draenor after the Second War, etc…
When Vanilla WoW launched, High Elves had more settlements and presence in the game world than Gnomes did. I think Blizzard could have gone a route where the High Elves with Jaina and Dalaran left and returned to Quel’Thalas, but in the end they just left them in the Alliance, even going so far as to plan a unique faction reputation for them.
Like I said, it’s fairly subjective. I gave my own views on it.
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I still have the box from wc3 the frozen throne where it said all remaining high elf’s renamed themselfs to blood elf’s to honor their fallen. It was stated in game as well. Also in wc3 Jaina didn’t have elf’s with her. Even the kiron tor turned in the blood elf’s and tried to eradicate them. Also this was before they started sucking mana from animals, if there were high elfs in dalaran at that time. I must say they have or had a really screwed up moral compass. Their race almost get wiped and then they tried to kill the rest.
Also killing animals isn’t pain free by any means.
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Doesn’t seem to be in the manual.
It was stated the survivors of Quel’Thalas did so. Considering contact with Jaina’s forces in Kalimdor wasn’t possible, it’d be hard for them to even know Quel’Thalas had fallen, let alone the survivors had renamed themselves.
But, she did. If you play the old game, go through those Horde campaigns, you’ll find Elven Priests and Sorceresses among her forces.
Back in WC3, this was a jailer. It was later retconned to include certain members of the Council of Six (Modera for example). However, the Chronicles clarified that the Kirin Tor evacuated almost it’s entire population from Dalaran before the Scourge attacked it, and the bulk of the Kirin Tor did not return until long after Garithos was dead. They reclaimed the city and erected the magical dome over it while they rebuilt.
Its fair game to conclude that the Kirin Tor looked the other way when Kael’thas and his followers were sentenced to execution. To say they actively aided that is pushing it.
As of that time, Kael’thas and his followers had allied with the Naga, whom had been deemed an evil race. Who made that determination and why is up in the air (wouldn’t be surprised if Garithos decided it on the spot solely on the premise they were helping the elves). Kael’thas at least seemed to have a modicum of understanding of whom and what the Naga were.
Any High Elf who knows their history knows the name Azshara. Kael’thas allying with Vashj would’ve made anyone nervous.
No, but as I said, there’s a difference between butchering a dead animal, and a live one. One of those is infinitely more painful and horrifying.
I said box not manual
I do not think it stated just survivors of Quel’Thalas. Also there were only handful of elfs outside of Quel’Thalas, vast majorty lived in Quel’Thalas.
you also see drawfs, as you can train all units. They referred them selfs as human forces, even during the defense of the world tree they stated 3 races banded together, night elfs, orcs and humans. I at least and many others took that and other references to mean it was only force of humans.
that makes sounds logical, sorry it is really hard to keep up with retcons.
I mean it was just that, even before Garithos tried to set them up to die on the battle field. Nagas were just a convenient excuse, as no one really knew who they were.
All they said was it painful for syphon mana, it is also painful to kill an animal. I do not think you can say butchering a dead versus live one. Killing is painful so is sucking mana, in both cases animal dies shortly.
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What, on the back of the box? Can’t seem to find an image referencing all High Elves becoming Blood Elves. That said, I don’t know how many versions of the box Blizzard made.
That the majority of High Elves lived in Quel’Thalas prior to the Third War made perfect sense. However, when 90% of the kingdom is slaughtered by the Scourge, the ratio of the remainder of the race to what is still in the Kingdom is a drastic shift. If even 5% of all High Elves on Azeroth lived outside of Quel’Thalas, then they’d have had a population half as large as that of the Blood Elves. That said, Blizzard never gave us any percentages for the number of High Elves not living in Quel’Thalas, least of all in comparison to the survivors of it’s fall.
We do know Dalaran has existed for 3,000 years, was essentially founded by Humans and High Elves together, and has had a sizable population of High Elves in it. That’s not considering High Elves living in the various lodges in the Eastern Kingdoms, and again those in Outland whom followed Alleria or were with the Kirin Tor forces (although most of the Kirin Tor from the Alliance Expedition were killed by Kael’thas anyways, so a bit of a moot point to bring up).
Add onto that the High Elves whom chose to ignore Anasterian’s command to return to Quel’Thalas and instead continued to serve the Alliance, and you’re talking about so many different factions and locations that no matter how small they may be, add up to something not insignificant.
That’s one interpretation, but Blizzard later proved it wasn’t the correct one. I mean, you yourself said it was the three races.
So… did the Trolls and Tauren just sit that one out or something?
You’re good. Blizzard’s only consistency is in that it consistently retcons stuff.
Kael’thas was aware that they were the remnants of the Highborne whom had served Azshara. I don’t know how common that sort of knowledge would be, but as I said, the name of Azshara alone would be enough for any High Elf thinking of defending him to stop and think really hard.
The High Elves believed in other methods of coping with the addiction. Draining magical artifacts, for example (and in the RPGs, Meditation, although that has never been confirmed as canon since the RPGs were de-canonized). Others endured the addiction through sheer willpower (the Hinterlands Lodge actually went cold turkey on magic altogether).
They had the folding page in front.
Ya I kind of did assume both trolls & taurens were regrouping after almost going extinct. Even in the founding of orgrimmar, you had to go out of your way to get them ready and participate in war.
How did they prove it wasn’t correct? retcon?
ya I feel like half the time I have an argument and find out it was retconned lol
Ya Kael knew but no one outside of his forces talked to them and they shouldn’t of known. I miss this alliance they were very flawed and not welcoming to other races like the horde was. However that horde is evil not and alliance pure good.
I though hinterland lodge drained some magic artifacts and it back fired killing them. Again aweful writing and retconing, they should of closed the chapter on high elfs. Do not know why they kept teasing them only for Ion to say they are blood elfs and then turn around give out void elfs.
void elfs are even more odd to me, the studied void to help their people, but now they fight their people and joined their enemies. Guess they had to make alliance fans happy.
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I’d need a picture to be honest, but every lore source since has always specified it was 90% of Quel’Thalas which was destroyed, and the survivors who began calling themselves Blood Elves.
There have been Troll and Tauren characters in-game who mention taking part in the defense of Hyjal, and in BC, we saw them (and Dwarves and High Elves) among the Alliance forces as well.
I’m not saying there isn’t an argument to be made that our generic mass-produced troops don’t necessarily reflect the racial composition of forces correctly in lore, but Blizzard themselves have gone out of their way to make it so since then, as seen through the Caverns of Time dungeons and other material.
It’s a pain to keep up with the latest retcons. Even new lore added to the game often feels like a, “Wait… why?”
Take BFA. During it we learn Night Elves actually did support Quel’Thalas during the Troll Wars (a Dark Ranger and some Night Elves exchanging barbs during the Alliance campaign), and then the Chronicles tell us that the Highborne would never have survived passing through the Alterac Mountains if not for the humans in the area, thus the High Elves/Blood Elves/Quel’Thalas never would have existed.
Its just… after going out of their way to loudly and proudly proclaim the Blood Elves and Quel’Thalas are solidly Horde and never had any reason or justification to go near the Alliance without sharp pointy weapons, why do that? It didn’t serve the narrative at all.
I would be surprised if Garithos knew, but I wouldn’t have been surprised if the likes of Modera knew. I don’t think the High Elves kept knowledge of the ancient Highborne Empire a secret from the magi of Dalaran. In fact, I believe it was often used as an example as to why discipline in magic is so important.
You’re thinking of the Eastern Plagueland’s Lodge. A magical item of, ‘Seductive Power,’ influenced them to start draining its power. This in turn resulted in them becoming Wretched. Where that item came from is not known. It was speculated to have been from a Vanilla-era Questline in which you reforge an artifact from lake Kel’theril in Winterspring, but that’s still in Winterspring as of Cataclysm.
Furthermore, by the time this all happens, the Sunwell has canonically been restored and is sating the addiction of all elves, no matter where they are. Lor’themar visited the lodge in the Eastern Plaguelands himself after the Sunwell was restored to try and mend bridges (somehow unaware that the Horde has been slaughtering elves there for years by command of Nathanos).
If that was their goal they failed miserably. I agree, Void Elves make no sense. On any level of the lore. I mean you can start with small stuff like Magister Umbric’s name (Stand back Velen, Zul, this guys parents put both prophets to shame), but then there’s the fact that the Void was a power that has, without fail corrupted Dragons, Gods, and even Titans, but that this one group of elves master over the weekend. That’s not even touching on how they just start waltzing around Darnassus and the Night Elves don’t even bat an eye about it.
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As a proud midwesterner I really need to echo this.
To expand, the savanna’s cousin, the prairie, is one of the most important and bio-diverse places in North America. It is heavily drought resistant, its deep root system sequesters so much carbon, and provides life to a whole host of small mammals, birds, reptiles, and insects. It has also been the most destroyed ecosystem in North America.
When people see prairie they see ‘wasted’ land. The see ‘unkempt’ nature, as if it should be some carefully manicured thing. They mistake what would be tall majestic prairie life for weeds in their early development. Its ‘boring’ because there is no larger than life flora you can stare at and admire like the 150, 200, year old tree that spans 100-200ft up, has 100-200 feet wide canopy, provides pretty shade and can easily see the squirrels or birds or what have you inhabiting it - its own little micro ecosystem. There are also, by extension, deep 200 year old stumps too ornery to remove that protects it from easy destruction and transfer into ‘productive’ land. Prairies on the other hand obscure small wildlife from predators, the sun is beating down on you when you visit them, the ‘pretty’ plants are not always easy to see and flower at different times of year, and there are bugs everywhere since its so pollinator heavy.
All that is to say is that the, usually white, western concept of ‘nature’ is a very limited scope of green dense forests is so boring, plain, and overdone. WoW showcases the early developers very Northern California/West Coast concept of ideal nature being huge Redwood like trees in this protected, curated, and cultivated setting where there is relatively low level of biodiversity when rain forests, prairies, swamps, savannas, and deserts all equally exist as ‘peak nature.’
All this actually reminds me of the the tier 15 druid set. While its labeled as ‘haunted forest’ it gives swampy vibes. It is the only real ‘non-forest’ druid set we have. Others could make that list, but very few. Tier 6/Season 4/Cruel Glad, Season 12, Season 16, and thats about it. Very underwhelming for other biomes.
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The next step would have been sucking demons and I am fully on board with that because I want that maximum edge for my favorite race.
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The animal side of Druidism should be expanded as well. Until the Zandalari came along, animal forms and reverence seemed to almost be exclusively for bears, cats, deer, and birds. Druids associated with, say, reptiles or wolves were portrayed as corrupted and/or villainous.
As more races acquire the druid class, I think the animal themes should be expanded upon as well as the biomes.
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Looking a bit wider than just the Barrens, we see all sorts of these non-forest biomes and how beautiful they can be in Mulgore, Durotar, Dustwallow, and Thousand Needles (pre-Cata)
We have savanna, prairie, and Durotar reminds me heavily of the ‘Far West’ or ‘Wild West’ region of the United States - the long arid plains and mesas of that region- and swamplands. Far from being uninhabitable, as you said, they filled with their own wildlife and extreme beauty as well. All of these regions have their own beauty and undeniable aspects of nature.
Yet the Barrens, Durotar, Dustwallow, and Thousand Needles are all treated as if their own native wildlife and aspects of nature don’t matter at all in the game. There is no nature focus on keeping these lands pristine - heck the Thousand Needles gets completely flooded and there isn’t a single druid out there trying to restore that natural environment. Everywhere the Druids try to ‘restore the land’ that restoration only means one thing: Forests and Trees.
I wish I could share pictures. Instead just google ‘American Far West Landscape’, ‘Louisiana Bayou Landscape’, and ‘Colorado prairie landscape’. They are beautiful.
Also - I failed to point this out prior, but I would like to point out the irony of ‘peak nature’ being “Magical Twilight Forest” - which is the only biome that doesn’t naturally exist on Earth.
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Which is insane when you think about it cause that is an entire dry canyon environment that is all but completely extinct at this point. The work that needs to go into something like that is momentous. Gotta plug the hole, essentially, and then while the water evaporates need to figure out what to do with all the salt.
Even if restoration is off the table, you’d think a huge debate about the importance and merits of ‘fixing’ a changed environment due to, essentially, natural environmental disaster. A huge moral crisis of do you let the land change or do you attempt to preserve in perpetuity, knowing that land does in fact change over time? Especially for a Night Elf who has lived 10,000+ years and have seen the land shift, change, die off, and regrow. Here,10,000 years ago, hell even 5,000 years ago, we had mammoths and giant ground sloths walking around, lions in Europe, and in North Africa way more recent than that. They may be more open to allowing change, no matter how drastic. As opposed to a tauren or a troll who sees life and the environment much more differently, having a normal span, and sees conservation, protection, balance and continuation of the current habitat as a far more important thing.
Just add it to the list of cool things they could do with druids, but because of the Cenarian Circle, Night Elves, and the lack of creativity they will never touch.
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In Cata, I was quite sad that this concept never came up in regards to the Cenarion Circle’s actions in the Barrens and Desolace. Karnum’s Glade is pretty, and it’s great to have a CC place dedicated to a tauren leader, but it’s never questioned whether turning the zone back into the forest it was 10,000 years ago is the right thing to do.
And now I forget if Naralex’s chain in Southern Barrens is about whether restoring to a 10,000 year old save point was a bad idea, or just that forcibly changing nature at all was a bad idea.
I’d love for this to be a point of contention between night elf and tauren (and other) druids - both see their work as restoration of externally-damaged ecosystems, but the night elves are lookin gway farther back in time as the point they’re trying to restore to (and which conveniently happens to be night-elf-friendly forests), while the tauren are focused on restoring the war’s effects but keeping the place as a prairie/etc.
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i do not have it any more, but isn’t that the same thing 90% were destroyed and the rest called themselves blood elves. you make it sound like it was only people in the city itself not the race. Again it was a while ago but i am sure they said race not city.
there was a quote from in game in wow where it said 3 races made a stand against legion.
i do not think they knew who or what the nagas were, even malfurion and maiv didn’t know.
I didn’t know they were killing elves, weren’t forsaken the reason they were safe. I remember Sylvanas threating to pull her forces, that were protecting them from the scourge, if lorthemar didn’t join the war against the lich king.
“Ardenweald is not nelf content.”
- Zone is crafted as an eternal night deciduous forest with stars falling from trees.
- Night song
- Trolls and Los are stated to be beneath her and utterly unworthy of the Winter Queen’s notice.
- The Winter Queen is Elune’s sister.
- Before shadowlands, azeroth was the nelven afterlife via wisps unless Elune loved you enough to turn you into stars.
- Ardenweald is directly tied to the nelven emerald dream, which only has nelves bound to it.
- Ysera is made part of the Winter Queen.
- Malfurion can nap there to become a literal god without even dying.
- THE ONLY SOULS WE SAVE ARE NELVES
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I forgot to mention that there’s one Tyrna Tree for each World Tree that Azeroth has had.
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I also forgot to mention that the other side has been talked about and amped up for almost a decade in game, but that was turned into a dungeon instead of a zone while devs made up a nelven afterlife because every expansion has to have something for nelves.
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