The horde needs a devastating defeat

I’m not. I’ve accepted that the Alliance narrative is written for someone’s inner 12 year old who only plays lawful good overdrive powered male human paladins who are FURIOUS that they can’t have their own High Elf waifu like their favorite NPCs.

Ironically they share that with the nelves.

Beats reoleplaying a batter woman where your leaders scold you for wanting justice or revenge when you juat want the pain to stop.

It will all happen offscreen and most players won’t even know about it.

Both factions are suffering though this.

3 Likes

It’s not about potential but it bothers me that because Andiun and now Jaina. If they have spoken then all other characters lose agency.

1 Like

I want Malfurion to execute him, and grow a world tree out of his corpse. Lets go full Warhammer wild elves.

Come back when a non-human is High King. Human potential is not a meme. Its there because any half-wit can write a vague story about humans ovecoming rough odds, leading and outperforming other races and people will lap it up because they instinctively root for humans solely because they are humans irl. Blizzard has ZERO passion for anything alliance that isnt a Wrynn or Jaina. “Humans are special” is a popular trope for a reason.

7 Likes

Now I want to play Warhammer 2. Dang it.

1 Like

Other than the stories some NE fans seem to want where a deliberately militarily stagnant civilization that does nothing to actually maintain its military supremacy on its own continent; somehow is still portrayed as being more powerful than almost the entire Horde combined (and only lost because the Horde deterred most of their forces south AND that skeleton police force still resulted in more Horde combatant causalities canonically)?

If you want Warhammer Elves, then by all means let them go that route; but that means Blizz should allow the Horde to go full on Warhammer already as well. And that means attacking the NEs with more than just prototype Azerite ammunition and tech that dates back to friggen BC. It also means that the underhold would be currently getting used as the actual industrial plant it was meant to be; instead of some glorified prison for Baine.

Good luck NEs, in that sort of setting you’d almost be REQUIRED to rely more and more on your Gods to bail you out of jams to save you from that sort of Horde.

13 Likes

Frankly, this entire situation (Horde commits an atrocity because the Warchief is nuts, Alliance doesn’t get the opportunity to punch back because the Horde’s busy ripping itself a new one, and the faction story quickly dissolves into a burning landfill) is why they need to bite the bullet and end the faction war.

Look, I get it. You wanna talk about constantly getting kicked while you’re down, I play a gnome. We’re the kings of this trope bar none. Name the last time the gnomes have made a solid, undeniable win with no caveats attached. Pre-Cata when we managed to secure an airfield and the surface around Gnomeregan? Whoopdedoo.

Point BEING, every time the plot is written around the faction war, it suffers greatly. It relies on robbing every character involved of logic and reason, hands out stupid pills, and typically involves the Horde being hamfistedly turned into cackling cartoon villains less morally complex than the lovechild of Snidely Whiplash and Dick Dastardly while the Alliance take one in the teeth.

But Huxlley is right. There’s not really anywhere you can take an aggressive Alliance so long as the two-faction system exists. If the Alliance brought every big gun it has to bear against the Horde, the war would end in a fortnight and everyone with a Horde character would have to start fresh because their character was killed in sustained bombardment from the Vindicaar.

Going forward? The faction war needs to end. Permanently. It is nothing but a millstone around the plot’s neck at best. I get that it’s unsatisfying to go that way, especially when the Alliance spent so much time taking it in the teeth and unable to properly get their pound of flesh. Think of it like an extremely gross medicine. Extreme unpleasantness in the short run for long-run necessity.

Where is the faction war going to go from here? It’s already gone past nonsensical with numerous factors written completely out of the plot without so much as a passing mention. Where was the Vindicaar in the War of Thorns? Where were the Ancients when the Forsaken and Goblins caused large-scale ecological devastation in supposedly-sacred forests? Why hasn’t Sylvanas used the Bilgewater Harbor cannon in an opening salvo and invaded Stormwind? Why haven’t the night elves used Val’sharah as a staging ground and crippled the Nightborne? Why haven’t the dwarves used Dark Iron mole machines to launch a surprise raid on Silvermoon and crippled the Horde’s magical capabilities?

“That isn’t the story we want to tell” is all the proof I need when I say the faction war is a failure of a plotline, has been for over a decade, and does nothing but hurt the story and demotivate the players. Alliance players feel like a punching bag, and Horde players feel like they’ve lost everything that made the WC3/Classic/BC Horde special in favor of being written as bland, generic mustache-twirling villains whenever the writers run out of ideas and need cheap plot fodder.

The Horde’s already gotten a devastating defeat: they’re written by the current lore team. This is a defeat both factions share in.

36 Likes

NO Zippy, don’t bring up the fact that individual PC races might have it worse than the NEs or the Alliance faction?! That might give some perspective on how everyone is getting their teeth kicked in; and besides … races like the Gnomergon Gnomes; Bilgewater Goblins; Gilneans; and Darkspear Trolls don’t matter anyway. My favorite PC races story began and ended in our intro questline, with the harbinger of our destruction being made our leader … who has since proceeded to rack up a higher Goblin death toll than the friggen Alliance (and he sticks around because people who would never be caught dead playing a Gob find him funny).

17 Likes

This may come as a shock to you, but status quo is still a thing in Warhammer. The Gods are also more active. People dont go into the forest because divine-powered elves WILL win on their home turf. In exchange, they are weak outside of it.

We grant them that forest on sufferance. We watch them carefully, and if they become a threat to us or the forest, we will disembowel them and hang their entrails from the branches.

2 Likes

Cool, than anytime you actually lose territory it should be infinitely harder for you to ever reclaim it. Also, YOUR NE gods have never been portrayed as that actively involved in the conflicts between Mortals as the Warhammer Gods (and Cenarius actually managed to get himself killed in his first tussle with Orcs; so … they also aren’t as powerful as Warhammer Gods either).

If it’s a defeat you want come grab a torch and help me get this Thunder Bluff cookout started.

18 Likes

And yet legion had a great story arc for velen, wod also had yrel and maraad, admiral taylor was killed randomly.
Legion we had malfurion dealing with his nemesis xavius, tyrande also got her time, she even participates in the liberation of suramar alongside veressa, alleria had a story about the void and then bringing void elves. or the other allied races.
we had illidan and maiev having their story.

so please don’t act like other races did not received any story at all.
but i have to agree that they should have focused more on the nelfs during bfa, not just a warfront and that insult that was the darkshore scenario and night warrior, not even speaking if azshara dies without facing tyrande…

that is exactly why i think that we are going to see more precense of the other races after 8.2,or at least i hope so.

hahahahahaha

3 Likes

Is Azshara dead? Has that been confirmed? I guess we’ll see this week, but I don’t know if I’ve heard the answer to that definitively or not? If she is … ick; if she’s not (and just sealed away) … I suppose that as long as Tyrande is there for the final kill its not the worst thing in the world. Also, the Naz’jatar story is sort of a mess all around (like, pretty sure we go into THE Naga themed zone and focus more on our little aquatic buddies than the Naga themselves)? What?

1 Like

Three? When’s this third time you’re talking about? MoP and BfA, sure, but what other expansion caused a massive loss to the Alliance at the hands of the Horde?

I have this mental image now of a Forsaken, completely and utterly oblivious to politics and the war, showing up in Mulgore with a chef’s hat and grill, wondering why the Alliance is here, what’s all this noise about Sylvanas, and why he’s the only one who seemed have come prepared.

22 Likes

Crushed the wild elves and deforested a large swatg of their territory at the cost of most of your army? Some druids grow it back in some super rare ceremony in a week and the new dryads there are extra agressive.

Status quo is even more powerful in Warhammer. You’d probably lose all your battles in your own codex to set everything back to normal.

2 Likes

Apparently she is captured.
Maybe Blizzard would have Tyrande visit Azshara while she is imprisoned. A reversal of War of Ancient encounter.

2 Likes

OK … not going to lie … that would be a dope as hell scene conceptually! Seeing these two characters square off in a social encounter, without the immediate risk of combat getting in the way, would be something to absolutely look forward to.

8 Likes

The Alliance want a victory over a Horde capital city. This victory can’t simply be it’s destruction, though, they want to destroy it themselves entirely and all it’s citizens. They want to be the villain of an expansion for once. To start or continue a war beyond any rationality and have their faction and characters made irredeemably into villains.

I agree with them. I speak for myself when I say that I would love to be the good guy for the rest of this game’s lifespan. To have the Alliance attack the Horde’s lands and kill their people in an attempt to bring justice through dismantling the Horde. To play as that band of misfits in a hostile world that would see them destroyed that I was sold in TBC would make me enjoy the story much more than I do currently.

13 Likes

I feel the undercity could have been this with a few changes. First is back at the tree have the civilians actully have mostly escaped have the tree burned as a phyric we needs something to shiw for this thing. Then have it be the alliance mad that sylvanas who has to use everything she had just to get away blow up the undercity. This reduces the losses on the night elves and mskes the alliance show some rage giving players a fleeing that they did something. Right now while the undercity is an slliance victory because it was sylvanas blowing it up it feels weak and hollow

2 Likes

But he’s SAD though, so that means Malf will forgive him and everything will be ok.

7 Likes