Depends upon what she’s been doing since she became a sapient undead with free will. If she’s been super crappy then I would asume she is damned.
Ill chose to beilive it is more a faith thing as if you embrace the shadows and death it makes sense to go to the shadow lands and many undead do but if you keep youf old faith or just dont indulge in the shadows you go to normal afterlife.
I tried that argument recently and was told it was pure selfishness on my part. So I give up.
In what way can alliance players find satisfaction in our story that doesn’t come at the expense of horde players? Especially when the horde players are divided on what they even want. Not all of you want Sylvanas gone, and not all of you want to end the faction war.
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Their race is their actual, physical race. Are you saying a undead elf is biologically identical to an Abomination? A Skeleton? A Human? No, they are much more resembling their ACTUAL RACE, because Undeath is an affliction. The best argument is that they have the same culture of Forsaken, but Sylvannas -also- forced that on them in the Novella by forcing them to forget their old way of life. Also, you continue to ignore her own racism in not letting living Lordaeronians back into their own capital. That is just as bad. They ARE their biological birth races. They just happen to be dead and animated with magic. At most, some of their organs just dont work anymore. They still have them, they were still from their OG races culture, and they’re only shared history is being dead. All elves share some history as well, why are all Elves not the same by that logic? Same with Trolls, they’ve still branches with distinct differences.
Yeah, AFTER they’re raised. Not everyone got the special treatment NEs had, due to their Wisp-connection. We do not know what causes an undead to go to Hell when they die: morals, existence, etc. So by telling them, asking them AFTER you raise them, likely manipulated the battle rage they experience when reanimated to kill all their loved ones and comrades (Like in Silverpines) you havent given them a free choice. It’s possibly suffer for eternity, or serve her. That is the manipulation.
I hard pass on your hard pass. BfA was a giant waste of time.
I does matter when the Alliance wouldn’t have forced her into that position if she had never gone to burn down Teldrassil in the first place.
Alleria ported in troops passed where the blight would have been. Alleria could have also ported then out of Sylvanas’ trap. Jaina was somewhat excessive, but was still good to have her there, obviously (like how helpful she could have been at the War of the Thorns instead).
Questionable, given that Before the Storm depicted the Goblins as hostile and militant first.
Or take down Sylvanas so the war can end even sooner and even fewer people die than that.
As stated to you before, using your own conclusion as evidence to prove itself is faulty reasoning. Might as well assume Anduin was correct in his belief that peace can happen and be maintained instead by that reasoning.
Objectively winning Darkshore and Ashenvale back and the Horde never attacking again would be enough for me.
Yes, a declaration would be needed, because treason and working with the enemy is not the same as defecting. You like looking up definitions, right?
They can, and some Forsaken fans who care about Lordaeron as being at the core of what it is to be a Forsaken have.
If you made a suggestion of something that would be fun for both sides I missed it. And if I did miss it, I apologize. I don’t recall you doing so, though. At least in our discussions you only argued for what would be best for the Horde to the detriment of the Alliance.
Unless, of course, again, I missed something.
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Unless there is a patron to protect you from such a fate like as the light or Bwonsamdi.
Even then, that is possibly just a “you are asked as a ghost before it happens” type thing, like with NEs (since they have Wisps)
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I think Alleria could have gotten them out of the trap. I’m not sure she could have gotten them into the same position as Jaina did. As it included both clearing the blight in front and blowing a hole in the wall. I think the large presence of siege weaponry indicates they didn’t have the ability to simply teleport everyone in.
- Alleria Windrunner says: Let us even the odds, King Wrynn!
Anduin Wrynn says: Alleria! Thank the Light you've made it!
Alleria Windrunner says: I am known for my timing, your majesty. Mekkatorque, are you ready for battle?
High Tinker Mekkatorque says: Indubitably! I brought some extra machines for backup. Feel free to give 'em a spin!
Alleria was running behind for some reason. Wherever she came from she could have shown up to Brill first and ported the troops that got pushed back to there passed the walls along with Mekkatorque and his machinery.
I’m saying I don’t think that would have been possible.
On what basis?
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This is what I would have said if they told me Teldrassil was going to be burned down by catapults on the coast of Darkshore.
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Just my inference from the circumstances as well as the implied constraints on mass teleportation. Not anything concretely given.
Given that the circumstances was that the Forsaken army inside the walls was routed by the use of Mekkatorque’s machines putting the scales back in the Alliance’s favor I do not see any practical difference between Alleria bringing the machines empty for the Alliance forces already passed the walls to get into, or the Alliance forces getting into the machines in Brill first and then coming in through the void portals.
I think Tyrande’s revenge, as seen by the devs, was a total freaking joke. She got no vengenane, and Sylvanas has so far gone unpunished for the burning of the world tree…losing on Valk was nothing, what a joke.
However, that being said, the entire horde didn’t come up with the plan to burn the world tree, that was all Sylvanas. So to humiliate and over-punish the Horde as a whole for her horrific choice would be very wrong…and would indeed make the Horde the sympathetic side and give them the moral high ground.
As someone who plays both sides, I’m not into the faction vs. faction bashing ppl go into irl, but I AM into the faction vs. faction lore…and I think it’s fair for venegeance, you can give whatever bs philoshophical reasoning you want but the burning of the world tree was overboard and horrific. However, again, it was a single leaders choice…and unfortunately for those who want retribution, that single leader is a fanboy-favorite and dev-favorite. She won’t be killed off, for money, fanboy, and dev bias reasons, Sylavanas will likely be around until the very end of the darn game…so that makes getting REAL revenge near impossible since real revenge would involve defeating Sylvanas.
Therefore, what we’ll probably get will equate to a slap-on-the-wrist to the Horde, and all our focus will shift to the next big bad for 9.0 and I’m pretty sure it’ll be another “lets forget this factions melodrama and work together for the greater good” type of thing.
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That was how you and others took it, so clearly I wasn’t making myself clear. But I think I need to take a break from the forums for a while anyway.
So you’re comparing weapons of mass destruction to a living, sentient entity (perhaps omniscient even), and think they’re remotely the same thing? I’m pretty sure the Mustard Gas/Nuclear Bombs didn’t have the capacity nor the intelligence and vast resources or knowledge to make a judgment call and go, “No,” or, “This is entirely justified and proper.”
I mean, heck, what if Elune does this without Tyrande or any other Night Elves actually praying for it or doing anything to make it happen? What if it’s been on queue since Teldrassil burned and only at 8.3 does the long cast time come to a close and it goes off?
Personally I think it’s better to come from Tyrande to not only give the nelf players some closure on the whole thing, but also for that potential of inner conflict within the Alliance. As I said before, how Alliance players react to this can finally be a way for Alliance players to get some agency and choices in their narrative. Side with Anduin and help the Horde, or side with Tyrande and help the punishment be more severe.
That’s really working out for the Horde, isn’t it? Play along and all that.
All that would happen would be to shame Tyrande again for not having a little patience (which is the last thing we need) and propping Anduin up for having been right all along and should have been listen to.
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Ehhh… I’d expect any who support Tyrande to get a guilt trip by the likes of Anduin and Jaina, but not much else. Maybe if we’re forced to work with the Horde in the future, Horde leaders would remember and have harsh words for us, and kind words for those who helped alongside Anduin and Jaina.