It is not racist to say the Undead do not deserve to permanently keep that land. For one, Anduin doesnt hate the Forsaken en mass. But it is unnatural. The Tauren are sympathetic to the pain the undead feel, but let’s not pretend for even a second that they want them to be immortal rofl. The Forsaken should live long enough to find peace with their death.
Also, No. Sylvannas hasn’t been shot in the foot very often. The Alliance is still pulling it’s punches, not using the Vindicaar, not asking for aid from the Wild Gods who govern the wilderness of Kalimdor that the Horde is currently cutting down and blighting (Which, honestly, is a good thing Because Cenarius + Aessina + Ancient of Winds + Druids of the Talon would literally just make a bunch of Tornados and fling them at Orgrimmar all the way from Hyjal…) and not seeking out many darker powers. The Alliance wasn’t even going to use Azerite initially. Sylvannas, at most, would win because plot demands it. She is not the most cunning mortal on Azeroth, tons of people are brilliant strategists in the lore.
Well it 100% shouldn’t be held by a woman who’d make “die and be raised as Forsaken” the only way for a Lordaeronian to come back to Capital City rofl. That isn’t racist, it’s Misanthropy. Literal hate of life itself.
Common sense tells me she’s using guesswork to make rampant speculation.
A hundred years of peace, and the Horde and Alliance might not even exist as we know them today, much like they didn’t exist a hundred years prior. Or maybe we’ve all been swallowed by a Void Lord. Or enslaved by the Light. Or crushed beneath the might of Kobold warlord. All equally as plausible as Sylvanas’ prognostications.
Remind me what “natural” is again, because it’s bordering on the subjective when it comes to fantasy.
Undeath =/= immortality.
Hats off for telling people how they should live based on their race. Nice racism. Again.
I guess high treason one time, organizing a rebellion, and working with the Alliance is three times in one instance too little, eh?
Draenie state that it’s not in condition to do so after Legion.
Funny how you think this yet Malfurion almost died in a fight against the Horde using his druidness. “Pulling punches” when Tyrande went ahead and called Elune about it - right.
Aren’t there void elves? I think there are.
You have it backwards.
She wont win because Anduin plot armor demands it.
Then explain how Sylvanas can bait them at UC/why you needed Baine to turn traitor to make sure Derek wouldn’t kill Jaina in her sleep.
I think that Azshara (the zone) is just being ignored because the writers want the focus on ‘need to invade Ashenvale for lumber’ - the use of their current land just isn’t the story they want to tell. But for players, especially night elf players, this just makes the Horde look worse because they keep invading even after the Alliance cedes land for them to use.
“We won’t have any more war because Anduin!” would count more as “rampant speculation” given that historically the Horde and Alliance both hate and can’t stop fighting one another.
A hundred years wouldn’t pass before something happened. It never does.
“Racials”.
Race: the fact or condition of belonging to a racial division or group; the qualities or characteristics associated with this.
2. a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.
Jaina herself predicted that Derek was “The Bomb” rofl. The Void Elves have been fairly moderate as well in comparison to what void magic can actually do.
Im not gonna touch the Malfurion argument. By the powers he has that the novellas themselves referenced, he should have been able to dodge an axe thrown (non-throwing axe mind you) by a screaming old Orc. But power level is a meme and the story goes where blizzard wants in spite of it.
Also, again, it’s Sylvannas who forces the Undead to not think of themselves as humans anymore, and would force you to DIE and be corrupted by dark magics and forced into a painful state of existence to live in your old, decrepit home again. How is that not racism too?
They both count. Who knows what would have started the next war? Who knows if there would have been a next war? The planet could literally have died before Sylvanas and Saurfang finished their chat.
That’s the point. It’s all speculation.
They all absolutely are. That’s the nature of conjecture.
Is that why they’re mind-controlling people in… oh, I can’t quite remember the zone, it’s new-ish content.
They’re not humans, they’re undead. Rangers were Elves - they’re literally not all human. They’re a boiling pot of people that constitute the Forsaken.
“painful existence” is subjective; the leader of the Desolate Council quite enjoyed being undead. They’re not “forced” to do anything (unless they’re Derek); the starting zone specifies this.
Except they don’t because one has a basis in logic and the other is idealistic nonsense.
We don’t have to wonder because it’s irrelevant.
Could’ve, should’ve, would’ve, but it’s far more likely that another war started instead of an everlasting peace produced by Anduin’s butt-marshmallows.
It’s also the point of speculation to deduce which one is the most likely, and guess which outcome that would be.
Genn was wrong for that but thank goodness he acted.
No we weren’t, not until wrathgate.
She’s still the one that blighted it and made it unusable. That was her.
I never said it wasn’t, but that how the living humans view it. The elves could care less.
That’s literally what a defection is.
Yes that is treason but not a defection. They freed Baine but in the end that are still fighting for the Horde.
They’ve all acted against the warchief in the best interest of the horde once before so what’s the difference?
Nope. They were loosing before Baine returned Derek and Baines escape.
His intentions were pure which she knew.
Even so she killed anyone did went to tube meeting even those loyal to her.
The elves haven’t gotten anything. The Horde and Alliance are at war but it in fact is the Night Elves that are the aggrieved party here. Their lose outweighs anything that the horde have suffered.
Undead is not a race, your physical race is your race. They are united by being undead, and Sylvannas has tried to force all of them to stop viewing themselves as their former races, and to forget the nations they already have. Also, Sylvannas still believes Undeath means you go to Hell when you die, so by asking AFTER raising people, it’s “Serve me or go to Hell now” rofl. Not much of a choice. Also, Mind Controlling people isn’t as bad as what Void can do. It’s not corrupting an entire population, controlling children into killing their parents, etc. Consider what is possible, and probably easier, that they arent doing.
Also, the Forsaken didnt build Lordaeron. Their ancestors did. No human forsaken is 3,000 years old rofl. No non human forsaken built Lordaeron.
I have the same reaction regarding Sylvanas and Teldrassil.
Then explain why a Horde contingent of soldiers sandwiched a contingent of Alliance between the Scourge in Icecrown beforehand.
And? Because you invaded it.
And orcs view NE like terrorists. Does that make Teldrassil okay?
Defection: the desertion of one’s country or cause in favor of an opposing one.
No, it “literally” isn’t; you don’t need to make a statement to defect.
It is both, as it’s pointed out that Sylvanas has justification to invade TB w/ Baine’s escape, which is treating it a lot like an Alliance hub, don’t you think? Treachery is obvious, and Baine is definitely not fighting for the Horde.
Because this isn’t in the Horde’s best interest.
We were winning before Saurfang decided to up and run away.
Sylvanas, if I recall correctly, thought otherwise at the time.
She had no way of knowing they were loyal to her; knowing that is a luxury of the reader.
The Alliance has.
Okay? And the Forsaken by that logic got nothing as well, they just lost their city. So can the Forsaken then have the same gripe?