You burned ours first and all of our ourside didn’t get out and now she’s trying to raise some of our people. Destroying UC was never the plan but it was Sylvanas’.
Again not that wasn’t the plan but at least Zandalar still stands and it’s citizens still live.
Half, whos the half? I see some are upset with her but maybe that’s because they see Sylvanas is nuts. She started a world war when said world is on the brink of dying.
Nothing you’ve pointed out is vengeance or justice for Teldrassil.
Wrong. You attacked UC so it was your plan. She made the best of it - which was her plan.
Right. You invade a city and “plan” to take a king who’s part of a warrior culture hostage, thinking that he’ll surrender. Furthermore, it was your choice to kill him. So, yes, it was your plan.
Thrall, Saurfang, Baine, and Lore’themar due to the fact that they’re conspiring with Alliance/against the WC.
She started a world war because it would’ve happened anyway at a worse time.
Yes, it is. You just whine and want more than what you got. Tough.
I think the issue here is that a Horde player can compile a list and say “Here are all the ways the Alliance have had some kind of success lately”. And if you just tally up that list things seem okay I guess. The Horde had some victories and the Alliance had some victories so it all balances out! But for many Alliance players, the crux of the issue is the burning of Teldrassil. That was designed to be a powerful, unequivocal loss for the Alliance and especially the Night Elves. It was set up to emotionally fuel the Alliance story. But as of yet, I don’t see how there has been a satisfying conclusion to that story. The Horde lost the Undercity…because Sylvanas blighted it herself. The Zandalari lost their king…but he didn’t have anything to do with Teldrassil and the Alliance military objectives in that battle really didn’t pan out. These back and forth partial victories would be fine if this was a story about two morally gray factions at war. But if instead you think about it as a victimized group seeking justice against a villainous group, “wanting more” revenge makes more sense I think.
His death coupled with the destruction of the navy nearly gave you the means to win the war. You want to be mad at someone after that fact then be upset with Azshara because she stole that satisfaction from you.
This would be a poor writing problem. I wish it was fixed, but… yeah.
Like hell it is. You stared this and this war, UC was retaliation. Not justice.
Wrong. Destroying that city wasn’t the plan. The plan was to hold it for the Alliance. Had you all won the war it would gave still been there. Sylvanas chose to blight it.
None of them have defected. That address found what’s in their best interests as they see Sylvanas is losing, losing it, and had not acted in the best interest of the Horde. Not to mention the Nightborne and Highmountian allies joined for kinship, not to join another war.
No. She started it because she ASSUMED another would start. At a “worse” time? She was already told about the dire situation and yet she went to war anyway.
You all are the ones whining about you’re experience if we’re actual get justice. The Night Elves are owed and they’ve yet to receive that justice. UC and Rasta are not the justice they deserve.
Oh my God it’s like war is an extremely complex subject where personal conflict and overall organizational goals leave even members within the same faction at odds why can’t it be more horde completely evil and alliance completely good!
Except we didn’t. We had so many SI spies in Org that Saurfang could dialogue with them.
SI:7 - and the player - attacked the mining encampment in Silithus well before Teldrassil burned, which, by the way, are non-combatants (the miners).
< Because letting you take it is a very dumb idea.
Not to mention it wouldn’t have been destroyed if you didn’t pull out a machiJaina, because you wouldn’t have gotten beyond the front gate.
They’re literally conspiring against the Horde by working with Shaw/Jaina and freeing a literal traitor who acted against the Horde by freeing what was basically a PoW. What’s in their “best interest” is to actually stick with their own faction so people can stop dying once the war has been won.
A Good War touches on this, basically stating that it’s, indeed, inevitable. Don’t try to muck with that “well maybe it wouldn’t have!” crap because it’s not true.
“Actual justice” = “I get everything I want!” You’re stamping your feet because you don’t get exactly what you want, and what you already got wasn’t good enough.
Arguably the Darkshore release cinema was this. Horde team gets slaughtered, runs in fear and gets traumatized. Alliance shows up proud, epic, and takes 0 losses.
But it wasn’t enough because after Teldrassil LITERALLY nothing will ever be enough.
No one is ignoring Silithus. That said the have always been agressions between the two factions in certain areas. A full on war is something else entirely.
No it wouldn’t have. The Alliance wanted Lorderon for the living survivors of that area. That was never going to be another Teldrassil.
That’s not a defection. Defection would be leaving the horde for the alliance. What they did was act against Sylvanas. They did what they throught was right at the time.
A war that none of them wanted and that now they are losing.
No both she and Saurfang assumed it would happen at some point in time because the Elves of both factions wouldn’t get along, the orcs and humans couldn’t get over past aggeessions, and the humans couldn’t accept the forsaken, even though Anduin made strides to fix that. She made assumptions and was probably wrong just like she assumed that Genn would leave the alliance if they chose to help take back Teldrassil first over Gilneas.
No that’s not what that means. The fact is the horde needs to pay for Teldrassil and UC or Rasta who had ZERO to do with Teldrassil doesn’t. You might be able to argue that UC could cover Teldrassil is self (it doesn’t) but what about the THOUSANDS that died in the fires? Nothing that has happened has been justice for them.
Darkshore would have been fine without raising the Night Elves, having them turn on their former allies, and then falling back on the “Raised dead join Sylvanas immediately. Free will tho.” Cake-and-eat-it-too nonsense.
For me, this has almost nothing to do with the Horde, or narrative balance, or anything so broad or high minded. My annoyance was at catering to making a smarmy edgelord look cool instead of getting to put him in the dirt. Again.
Those miners attacked and killed the equally non-combatant Explorer’s League archaelogists just trying to figure out what was going on with the giant sword sticking out of the planet (which the miners were actively making worse).
They also attacked the Sentinels escorting them. So “non-combatant” gets a little shaky when you take up arms, and actively strike first at military personnel.
Except even then, it’s pure speculation. If Sylvanas had said “Genn will attack us in one year, when X happens”, it’d have been one thing. But she doesn’t. She instead posits how long peace will last. A year? Ten years? A hundred?
I think, in part, that’s because Tauren -really- dont fit the Horde. This is, on some level, intentional. They fit Thrall’s Horde because he deeply admired them, and even Drek’thar said Tauren culture could do so much for Orcs (as their own similar culture had been lost on Draenor back then) It’s the wc3 Manual, and in one quest in Mulgore, that say what Tauren are MEANT to be in the writing. Spiritual guides who lead with example and action for the rest of the Horde to follow. Devout followers of their ancient beliefs, honoring the Earth Mother in all things and living in devotion to her.
That is -really- hard to fit into the Horde ever since Garrosh became Warchief. They turned farther from diplomacy, started taking much more from nature (in lands that were not their own) and, in the case of Garrosh, disrespected Tauren beliefs while asking them to solve an issue entirely created by him (It was a novella I believe) The main issue with Tauren writing, is that Faction Writing > Race writing, and that the Factions are stale and constantly twisted to fit the requirements of one storyline.
The Horde lost nameless NPCs and started gaining Undead Night Elves. So what if Malfurion killed 5 people? The questline itself makes Night Elves lose Sira Moondwarden, and makes her and Delaryn Horde. All the Horde loses is a Val’kyr, and how much do you want to bet* Blizzard is going to end up making them obsolete if Sylvannas becomes Lich Queen, or Helya’s return has more lore added to it. Nathanos had absolutely no right surviving that Questline. Even if it had only been Tyrande or Malfurion, he would be absolutely outclassed. He is a guy with a bow.
I want the Horde losing Ashenvale and the Night Elves finally gaining a foothold in the Northern Barrens. The morally-gray forces of nature reforesting the barren wasteland and the Horde forces driven away towards Azshara
Imo, i’d reverse it. The Night Elves would protect Azshara first. The Furbolg Tribes who stood against the Legion are there alone against the Horde*, and it is a place of many ancient arcane secrets they’d rather see forgotten. Night Elves dont really mind the Barrens. Wastelands have their place in nature: they should have fixed it when it was formed, not 10,000 years later when life has adapted. Desolace is an exception since it was fairly recent still in comparison.
No, it’s really not. We were near one in Legion when Genn got off his leash; we were basically at war through all of Wrath. Need I continue?
Like I said, best not to let you have it. Furthermore, that ideology is super racist. “Yeah, you guys built that city, but you’re dead now so it doesn’t belong to you.”
Do you need them to make an outright political statement, or is high treason and working with the enemy - to do the exact thing they wanted to do - enough? Because it should be.
Act against the WC = act against the Horde.
It doesn’t matter “if they think it’s right”; apparently they think it’s “right” to be Alliance buddies. It isn’t.
Because they keep shooting Sylvanas in the foot.
Anduin’s “strides” nearly got himself killed because he decided to bring the literal usurper down with him.
She wasn’t wrong about it though because there were Forsaken that did defect. Genn can talk smack now, but the predicament he would’ve been in doesn’t exist, and I rarely hold that temperamental idiot to his word because he often outright contradicts it.
Yes, in this case it’s exactly what it means. You didn’t “feel” like you got enough, but unfortunately for you, your “feelings” are in your control. In retrospect, you did get about as much as we did - if not more. You destroyed our fleet, you killed one of our leader’s kings, and you managed to take UC off the map for the Horde - regardless of what you wanted to do with it. We got Teldrassil - and not even the surrounding territories, because that’s a Warfront.
Ashenvale is a given. Instead of a foot hold in the Barrens I’d say retake all of Stonetallon Mountian and Azshara.
The thing is that they had access to Ashenvale. The Night Elves allowed them to take what they needed, to a point in guessing, after the third war. That pact was ended thanks to Sylvanas and her foolishness that lead to the Wrathgate.