I’ve spent a while thinking about this, balancing out the needs of the Alliance without causing the Horde players to suffer for the narrative’s direction.
So obviously Sylvannas and Nathanos need to go. Give the canonical kill to Tyrande and Malfy. Saurfang gets stuck in a barrow for “ten thousand years”, or until he dies of old age. No execution, no honorable death, just a prisoner. I stray away from killing him because it’s what he wants. Gallywix gets executed, though I secretly want him to be “paper clipped” instead. For the luls.
Obviously Ashenvale, Darkshore and all other lands claimed go back to Team Blue. I know people say give Lordaeron to the Alliance, but the larger Alliance hasn’t been touched save for their attack on Lordaeron. I’m not seeing a good enough reason for them to get reperations. I’d say give the Alliance Gilneas, but IIRC nobody’s claiming them currently anyway.
Land reperations are where I’ve been stuck. I can’t think of anywhere on Kalimdor with a large Horde presence that would be suitable for nelves to build a new home. Azshara’s a possibility, but after the goblins have lived there, I can’t imagine the night elves would really want it back. Though there’s a poetry in returning those lands to them (in-story at least), given the proximity to Orgrimmar. Kinda like entrenching them where they can keep an eye on things in case Baine’s successor in four years makes some dirty moves.
That’s what I’ve got. It’d hurt us on team Red, but not cripple us. Saurfang’s the hardest loss there, but I just don’t see a way to keep him around after planning the entirety of the WoT. I’d really want exile, but I know that won’t fly for Ally fans, and I can’t really argue it.
You aren’t really wrong, but if we get revenge by launching an attack on High Mountain or Thunder Bluff that doesn’t really seem like a satisfying conclusion. Better to go after the person who actually ordered the attack.
The way I was thinking about it was that Sylvanas has always seemed invulnerable and in control during this story. Even when the Horde lost or had setbacks she’s acted like it was all part of some master plan. If we could show her up and do something that actually seemed to matter, something that actually ticked her off and effected the story, I think that would feel more satisfying than more partial bittersweet victories fighting Horde figures that weren’t even at Teldrassil.
Besides, I don’t think there is a way to set the story up so the Night Elves come out completely on top. They had their home burned down, their territories ruined, and their people slaughtered. This is always going to be a tragic story for them. The best we can hope for I think is to get a triumphant story moment and then move the plot forward.
I like and agree with everything you’ve said, though I think locking Saurfang up would be a waste (though definitely not as much as killing him). Here’s my best case scenario:
Tyrande has Saurfang at bow point again, Saurfang is not moving and accepting being judged by the embodiment of Elune again, while Sylvanas is smirking in the distance behind him pleased that her enemies are pitted against each other. Only for Tyrande to shoot her arrow and it goes over Saurfang’s shoulder and kills Sylvanas’ remaining Val’kyr (lets say after Saurfang has already killed the other one). Sylvanas screams and retreats, and Tyrande says something to Saurfang like “You will live, and atone for what you have done until your dying breath. Elune make it so you will not find that reprieve for years to come.”
Make Saurfang keep working to maintain the peace between the Alliance and the Horde until he passes on from old age. I especially like this idea with your idea of the Night Elves establishing a watch in Azshara. That way they could make sure he’d be keeping up with it.
See, the Horde fan in me likes this, but realistically? Anything that has him interacting with the Horde feels like it fits squarely in the “not enough” category. Especially if his interactions are done with the orcs in Orgrimmar.
… But I’m Team Red and I want my Saurdaddy to stay around, telling me never to forsake honor, so ok.
Well this plan was hatched by Sylvanas and Saurfang with the whole Horde following them.
Have you read a Good war? Hearing the descriptions of Horde behavior I am hard pressed to grant them any mercy narratively.
And we killed Garrosh but another better Garrosh showed up anyway. What makes you think the same solution would work this time?
I agree.
I have read a lot of ideas ranging from destroying the Horde utterly or just going after mean warchief again.
Well whatever happens there has to be a reasonable explanation beyond “we have a good guy in charge now!” Because by that logic as soon as the next warchief dies the Alliance should be all hands on deck for the coming war.
I don’t read Alynsa’s posts. Too toxic for me.
Oh right you don’t read what I post either because I don’t agree with you.
I don’t disagree with you. The Horde does all kinds of terrible stuff and the Alliance has to forgive them each time. Its annoying. If this was a single player game I’d be tempted to go dark side route and blast apart Orgrimmar with the power of Elune. But its not and I doubt Blizzard is going to let one faction utterly devastate the other. I just hope we get a cool moment of revenge before the Alliance and Horde hug it out and we fight N’Zoth. I think the Night Elves deserve a complete story with closure.
Maybe Blizzard can move away from the two faction system? If there isn’t really a Horde or Alliance (at least as we know it now) then we don’t have to worry as much about the Horde’s inevitable slide back into evil.
In the thread about the Alliance as villains, I argued that Alliance players should not be made to play as the villains. Because that’s what happened to Horde players, and it sucks.
How about we try to come up with story ideas that could be fun for both sides, rather than trying to punish other players because of the faction they chose in a video game?
We’re a bunch of nerds playing the same game. We’re on the same side, really.
I agree. I think it works best when the Alliance and Horde are generally working together on some major goal. There can be disagreements and skirmishes (pvp zones, individual character conflict, etc), but if both factions have the same purpose than a story can be told where all players feel like heroes in a fantasy adventure and we don’t have to do the whole “this faction lost this so to balance it out the other faction has to lose this and then this beloved faction hero becomes a raid boss” thing.
Hard pass. No interest in an Alliance victory that just returns us to the status quo we had before BFA, thus making the whole thing a giant waste of time.
Besides, the Horde lost Lordaeron and Dezar’alor. They don’t need anymore defeats for the Alliance to get “even”.
Lordaeron was at best a pyrrhic victory as without the unforeseen arrival of Jaina most the Alliance leadership would of died in that throne room. On top of that the city was entirely evacuated and not only the city but the surrounding lands were rendered utterly uninhabitable. Sure it was a loss technically, but it was a loss Sylvanas had totally prepared for. The Alliance met none of its military objectives, and paid an awful price in lives to do it, as a military operation it was a failure.
As for Dezar’alor I am not sure how the loss of a single king and his defending military forces stacks up with the pillaging and sacking of every Kaldorei settlement from Astranaar (which don’t forget was slaughtered to the last man, woman, and child) to Teldrassil. Alliance forces were expressly told not to attack civilians, and the only ones that did die were the ones who directly attacked alliance forces first.
HOWEVER. All that said, I dont think the Horde needs to loose anything more. this tit-for-tat mindset is really unhealthy for the game as you end up burning the whole darn thing down. I think the true victory for the kaldorei would be to follow the words of an old poet: “Living well is the best revenge”.
The Kaldorei need to totally reclaim their lands, and build a large fortification along their borders, this can be done fairly cheaply using assets from the revamped WSG fortress. Northern Darkshore needs to become outright hostile land for the Horde and the mini metro area of Lor’danel, Aurberdine, and Bashal’aran needs to be rebuilt and become a new Kaldorei ‘capitol city’ with a new temple to Elune constructed in there somewhere.
Meh both events the Horde snuck in some really hard punches. So the “loss” wasn’t all that bad. And it was more than some off hand description of how strong whoever we are fighting is.
By Alliance standards we might as well call them wins.
There is a “leak” in internet that say that several leaders will die in the next expansion, or maybe at the end of this i guess. If that become true i only hope that Turalyon be one of them.
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