I already explained the flaw in that comment. Let me give some basic premises and you can agree or contest.
A thing fitting one permutation of a word’s definition doesn’t necessarily mean we should use that word as other words might better convey what it is.
A thing not fitting one permutation of a definition doesn’t necessarily mean we shouldn’t use that word because other permutations might be better conveying what it is.
Another definition has yet to be found that suits it better.
This disproves rule 1. This basically means you can cherry pick whichever you like and it would be whatever you felt like that day. This would make language invalid.
Doesn’t exist.
And depending on the word, they can only be used in so many ways. Hence the predicament. Changing their meaning outright all the time would invalidate the language.
You specifically address everything but what Tel actually is. You’re stating, by your two rules, that you can flip-flop. That gets us nowhere.
Personally, I would not like that. I don’t think it would be a satisfying Night Elf story to begin with the loss of Teldrassil and then end with having to kill Tyrande or Elune. That would mean that by the end of the plot not only would Night Elves have lost their capital, their starting zone, parts of their territories, and a large chunk of their population they would then take part in killing their own leader and/or goddess. That sounds super fun! (P.S. I am aware that what I just described might very well happen to Forsaken players and I really hope that you guys get a better plot than that) Plus, as a Night Elf and Alliance player I value the idea that the Night Elves and the Alliance are virtuous and noble more than getting spiteful revenge. I’d rather be the victim of Horde atrocities than take part in my own.
However, this idea of Tyrande or Elune becoming a raid boss only makes sense if the Night Elves are wiping out Horde cities or something. I never thought that was a good idea. As I said before, what I would like to see is for Night Elves to have a cool, empowering moment where they seriously deliver a blow to Sylvanas or her plans. This could be a lot of things. Maybe they kill Nathanos, or take out all the Val’kyr, or they cripple the Forsaken war effort in Kalimdor, or they set up a Voss/Calia rebellion against Sylvanas, or they play a key role in Thrall/Saurfang’s rebellion, etc. The Night Elves get a chance to look awesome and Sylvanas is pissed. Then, the Night Elves need to be given a chance to move on, memorialize what they lost, and start building a new home somewhere. I think that would be more satisfying than creating a new chain of reprisals and revenge by massacring Horde citizens.
I think the Horde players need a devastating defeat. It would make Alliance players happy, and it would make me happy because the game would be put out of it’s misery.
See, I was drawn to the Night Elves precisely because of their juxtaposition to the rest of the Alliance (before homogenization won the day, and they were tamed into purple Humans).
Ancient, nigh immortal, isolationist, Nature-centric Elves should have a thought process and code of ethics that is entirely alien to your average Human or Dwarf. An ambush is just as honorable as a frontal charge, because it’s on the prey to detect the predator. They are good people. Until you cross them. They are the beauty and grace of Nature. And its fury and ferocity. Elegance and feral savagery. Ancient and wise, hot-headed and brash. The compassion of Mother Moon. And the vengeance of the Night Warrior.
Night Elves are an ancient people, and need old school justice. Blood for blood. An eye for an eye, and all that jazz. Leave the pearl clutching and hand wringing to those in the Cathedral of Light. A force of Nature sweeps away guilty and “innocent” (hah) alike. Let Elune sort them out (it’s not like she’s doing a whole lot of anything else).
Technically Azeroth as it stands now was built by the Titans, so you technical applications amusingly do apply to this particular planet as well.
“Northern Kalimdor” is not a recognized region in lore. Unless you’re referring to the pen and paper RPG, which isn’t canon.
See above. It’s not a region inside a region, it’s a region distinctly of its own.
The island it was built on was still a region distinctly separate from Darkshore. That Teldrassil was grown neither makes it a city nor doesn’t make it a region. Though if you want to get technical, Teldrassil grew even bigger than the island itself, so Teldrassil is bigger than a region, if that’s what you want to go with.
I’m discussing the story as it is.
If we’re using in-game, Teldrassil was a region, not a city. This is not subjective.
The conversation was moot to begin with. No one other than yourself believes Teldrassil is a city. It was amusing enough to keep correcting you, though.
I agree. See the catapults that burned down Teldrassil. Catapults that they themselves gave us the maximum extent of their range in A Good War:
A short distance away, behind the main lines, was another group of siege weapons. One of the unit’s officers, an orc with a sour expression and a false smile, sat near a pristine demolisher.
…
“How far back are we from the front lines?”
“Several hundred yards, my lord.”
Saurfang growled at the officer. “And what is the maximum range of these weapons?”
The officer wilted. “A couple hundred . . . ?”
Teldrassil was not a couple hundred yards away from Darkshore. The catapults’ payloads literally could not have been able to reach Teldrassil.
Yet they did. And that they did is canon. Even if it doesn’t make sense. It is terrible writing. But it’s still lore.
I recognize that as well.
Though, again, that has nothing to do with what the Alliance has lost.
Lordaeron in its entirety would probably be equal to Teldrassil, yes. Lordaeron in its entirety was not destroyed. Only Brill and the Undercity.
Thus, once again, the Alliance lost more.
Nathanos doesn’t question Sylvanas. If she says take a Val’kyr out where the Val’kyr will be exposed, he’ll do it.
Only takes one Val’kyr to raise Forsaken. We don’t know what number Blizzard will pick next for how many Val’kyr it would take to raise Sylvanas again.
Amelia Stone and Thomas Zelling were had freshly died as well. They didn’t get elbows or knees.
Clearly not a factor to Blizzard. We also generally agree around here that most subscribers don’t actually keep up or indulge in the story, so it probably doesn’t actually cost them that many subscribers.
Shadowglen, Dolanaar, and Rut’tteran Village were not quarters of Darnassus. If you want to count quarters of Darnassus those were Cenarion Enclave, Craftsmen’s Terrace, Tradesmen’s Terrace, and the Temple Gardens. Which, of course, all burned.
Once again, Deathknell and the Bulwark did not.
This has yet to be seen. While I assume they won’t give me what I want, you and I both can still end up wrong about them not giving me what I want.
We’re not listing contested areas. But if you want to, then we can add Darkshore and Ashenvale back to that list as well, and the Alliance lost more still.
Being absurd again are you? I’m not a Blizzard writer. If I was, I wouldn’t write you getting anything.
You’re still intentionally avoiding that the Alliance has not gotten Night Elves back to replace the ones that were lost for all of your touting that they’re replaceable.
Still waiting on those reasons. I don’t think we’ll get any.
He’s some official artwork that was presented in the announcement trailer for the Traveler series:
Darkshore would be its own state, much like Westfall is its own. There can be several states under a single centralized government. That is how most places work.
Personally, I wouldn’t like this outcome. I doubt that her revenge vs. the night elves’ subsequent villain bat could be balanced anyway, and I also doubt that the night elves would ever get built back up after then losing their population, city, leader, and religion. And if the end goal of this expansion is to retire the faction war, making an Alliance character do something terrible enough to warrant becoming a raid boss for both factions sounds counterproductive.
The more I think about it, the more I’d prefer giving the night elves/Alliance players an absolute victory over Sylvanas’ forces while the Horde player is busy doing meaningful Rebellion stuff.
I only went back once after the scenario for some screenshots. I remember having to take most of them from towers, because of the blight on the ground, but not the exact extent of the blight.
I disagree. I think other presented definitions better convey what Teldrassil is. That saying ‘meet me in the Night Elf starting city’, people would clearly understand Darnassus. If you said ‘meet me in the Night Elf starting territory/region/realm/province’ they would have a much better expectation you mean Teldrassil.
It doesn’t invalidate the first premise or language, it is how language works. Shared understanding and use dictate word choice. Some definitions of city qualify it must be British (an incorporated British town usually of major size or importance having the status of an episcopal). This doesn’t invalidate the use of city outside England because not fitting one permutation doesn’t invalidate it.
This is why premise two is important. Because most anything can be disqualified from being used based on certain definitional permutations. So when you claim ‘region means this’ and point to a single permutation, you effectively stop word choices for almost anything.
The value of something (like a city) is entirely subjective. Value neutral terms are common.
They are important foundations because they are the core of your argument. So I have to point out the flaw there before engaging in the specifics as you are unsatisfied with my refutation of those.
The value of a city is subjective?
Then what is a GDP?
Property value?
Are you stating this specifically for language? If so, words have definitive meanings - they’re not subjective.
I said it was a city for starters, so let’s continue with that.
It matches the definition.
You say it was something else, but parts of your term did not stay up to scratch.
You did not specify how it wasn’t my term; you merely resorted to other things that it could be - which were debunked.
If it’s not what I say it is, then where is your disproof instead of cyclical half-definitions?
Yes. As in how a person values it. It might be worth a lot to someone and nothing to someone else.
These are commonly agreed metrics of value. But the importance will vary. To round this back, Darnassus might be very valuable to one player and worthless to another. It being a city gives it no inherent worth.
Again, this is why the foundation is important. Because this concept is flawed. You can find permutations of definitions where city won’t fit. So it shouldn’t be used unequally to other words.
Noooo. Guys. I finally at least had him admit Darnassus was a city, within the territory (I even let him pick the word) of Teldrassil. And now we’re back at the start
There is a definite asymmetry in that Darnassus and the zone it is in is gone, but while the Undercity is gone the zone it was inside of is still here.
Well the glades are mostly fine by in game maps nothing to tel is anymore so there is a difference if you wsnt to blame somone for not being as ble to go there sylvanas is the person.
![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
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