Hey there’s one guy in Nazmir who is sad he lost his garden but that’s used more as silly banter than pathos so it probably doesn’t count.
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It matches the literal definition of a city.
Of course in-game it’s going to be referred to as such; it’s where you start.
But if you want to go by that logic, then:
Tirisfal constitutes:
Deathknell
Brill
The Bulwark
And UC.
The other zones had hostiles in them, so it’s not quite correct to claim them.
< Doesn’t want to acknowledge literal definitions and prefers to turn to in-game terms because he thinks they prove his point.
< Literal definition of a city disproves this.
We lost that territory, that’d be why.
(To you). You even attacked Tarren Mill afterward.
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Well, in WOW, after Sylvanas tricked people into Nazjatar, those people went on to defeat Azshara in her palace. So to go with this monopoly analogy, if after landing on that other player’s space you then jump up and sock them in the face while I’m smirking off to the side, who is really the winner here?
If the Legion just popped out of nowhere in a blind stroke of luck and defeated the Horde, then yeah, the Night Elves would have just been weirdly fortunate. They wouldn’t have gotten revenge themselves (though they would be kinda avenged in a cosmic sense). But, imagine if instead Tyrande happened to figure out that the Legion was coming back and pinpointed the exact spot they were teleporting in. She then set up a cunning plan whereby she sends some weak looking units to draw a huge Horde force there. The Horde army rushes in, ready for the kill. All hope for the tiny Night Elf force looks lost. Then suddenly demons start appearing everywhere. The Horde panics. Soldiers are being killed left and right. I would say that was some real clever revenge there. A real victory for Tyrande.
That would be my W, as I took a spot and some of their teeth. You’d merely benefit from not having to compete with another person, though it still wouldn’t be your W.
It would be to their fortune aka benefit, but they wouldn’t have their revenge.
But the Legion killed everyone there, so it would be their W, and Tyrande would have her revenge because she’d be party responsible for the Horde’s loss. It doesn’t mean she’d be taking home the gold trophy, however; she’d just be getting her revenge.
The game decides what constitutes a city and a zone.
Not you.
Problem is only Brill and UC were destroyed. We do not see any other places be lost to the Horde in fact if you go there now you will see it is still being guarded by Forsaken like nothing happened.
But every town and zone between Barrens and Teldrassil were witnessed by both players and novellas to have been captured or destroyed.
I am not really interested in how you choose to define and change what Blizzard has already presented.
Show video proof.
Ok, yeah, I forget those guys are around. Thanks for that! At least we have some npcs mentioning Undercity. I was starting to wonder if maybe I was hallucinating the whole thing. Still, the only quotes that seem to imply the whole region is lost are:
Which could both be just referring to the Undercity, Brill and immediate surrounding areas. Or it could mean the whole of the forsaken lands in the Eastern Kingdom. I could actually see either, given Blizzard’s writing.
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There is also a group of Forsaken in Nazmir that mention Undercity, but as I said it’s mostly for laughs.
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Okay, I think I see where you are coming from. Destroying the Alliance fleet doesn’t feel like a victory to you because the Horde didn’t get to directly do it themselves. If they had won the day in a naval battle or through powerful Horde heroes or something, it would have shown Horde military might and prowess, making the Horde look strong. That’s a fair view. Everyone probably wants their faction to get some awesome fight scene victories in.
But the way I’m looking at it, having your faction leader create a cunning plan, implement that plan, have the plan succeed, and then benefit from that plan is a victory. Sylvanas made sure those boats were destroyed just as surely as if she went out there and sunk them herself. She won with smarts instead of weapons. I don’t think that’s less of a victory.
Think about it this way: How much effort did the Alliance have to take to sink the Zandalari fleet? Then, how much effort did the Horde have to take to sink the Alliance fleet? The answers to those questions are probably making Sylvanas feel real smug right now.
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It is kinda ambiguous. I do feel bad for Blizzard at this point though. With so many races, cities, zones, characters, plot threads, etc. they probably just don’t have the time and resources to flesh everything out like they might want to. To do this story that way, they would have to be updating old world zones each patch to represent how the war is going. That would be a lot of work.
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The Forsaken squad you quest with for a bit in Nazmir is probably the only reason I don’t want to see them all die.
They were hilarious.
Too bad I didn’t see them again in Voldun.
I’m torn on this. On the one hand, yes, it’s impractical if not impossible to showcase so many of the setting’s myriad characters at once.
On the other… it feels like they’re hardly trying. Like they line up a few characters, then decide to let them have content, and completely ignore the rest - or give them a line or two, even when more is needed.
Where’s the Horde characters reacting to Teldrassil? Or reactions to Lordaeron as more than just a joke? They don’t need CGI cutscenes, just a few lines of dialogue. Optional conversation paths or a scripted NPC debate showing off different Horde thoughts would go a long way.
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People are not dumb.
Thats why there are jokes that the Art Team has intense back pain for carrying this expansion because of how low effort the rest of the content has been.
You might want to check the wiki again. It wasn’t lost. Just contested.
Looks like your list just got a lot shorter, as neither Southshore or Silverpine qualify under your rules.
Lets see what I said on that:
Lets see what you said on that:
Your definition doesn’t apply to Teldrassil.
You’re really bad at using definition, aren’t you?
Looks like lies to me.
By your rules it is, since clearly Sylvanas is working in favor of the Naga.
It does indeed. And neither Deathknell or the Bulkwark were lost or destroyed. You can go visit them right now even in the current event maps of Tirisfal Glades.
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The dictionary*
Which the game doesn’t apparently abide by
- for convenience.
Which isn’t actually correct.
So congrats on not being able to comprehend the English language.
Player witness =/= what actually happens. We lost the territory, ergo the zone.
“How you choose to define” < The literal dictionary.
The wiki.
Aren’t you the same one saying that you “lost” DS even though it’s contested? Hm.
Are we going by your “logic” or not?
My mistake; I meant Tel, and it does.
Doesn’t look like it.
< As we continuously make moves against the Alliance.
No? She’s working for the Horde.
I can visit Brill too. It’s gone and we don’t own it.
Either “contested” means L or it doesn’t; which?
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Yes, but we didn’t sink the fleet.
I hear NE all the time talk about how they want their vengeance, and how they didn’t get enough from Rhast/Zand, etc.
So it’s one or the other. Either NE’s need to take into account what the Alliance gets as a whole (Rhast, fleet, etc.) and stop complaining about what they didn’t get as a race, or they need to go with the grievances of both sides and understand that the Horde isn’t satisfied with Azshara doing our work in the same way you’re not satisfied with the Alliance doing yours in Zuldazar.
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Not so much the Horde stinks, rather the idiots who get in charge keep leading it down into a sewer.
Just knock off all the Hordes leaders and start over again.
At this point I have no idea what you are talking about.
Good luck I guess.
I understand what you are saying, but I guess what it comes down to is that there are some events that I would be willing to considers “wins” for the Alliance or the Night Elves that if the situation was reversed you would not consider wins for the Horde.
Don’t know. Which one do you want to? Doesn’t matter to me. Either way, Horde still lost less.
Nope.
To obtain peace.
So are Baine and Saurfang working for the good of the Horde. Unless we go by your rules that helping someone else out, like Sylvanas helped out the Naga, means you’ve with them now.
Yep. Brill is gone. Deathknell and the Bulkwark are not.
If contested isn’t lost, then Deathknell and the Bulkwark are by any argument not lost. Shadowglen, Dolanaar, and Rut’theran Village, however, are not contested. They’re destroyed. They’re lost by any argument.
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The Horde gets a few more soldiers and the Alliance kills one of the single most important beings allied with Sylvanas.
I swear Alliance players won’t be satisfied until every Horde NPC has to bow to an Alliance flag like Kim Jong’s statues.
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