Oh, I don’t know. I would put it at a toss-up. It seems like his moment at the end of Dark Mirror and at the end of the Battle for Lordaeron put the possibility on the table. Plus his uptick in story involvement. But I agree I might just be optimistic compared to the other options.
I mean, if she’s that scared of the afterlife there are better things you can do to secure your longevity besides starting a war of annihilation and making your own allies hate you at the same time but here we are with sweet Sylvie.
I’m just saying if the writers want her to get out of this, that was a chance to humanize her a bit.
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Like, Danuser seems nice. Honestly. But it’s -really- hard to not see it when you look at his actual personal opinions on characters. It’s like Christie Golden and Anduin but just a bit stranger. In Christie’s case, we all love characters, and as someone who wasnt initially here to make the characters, i get having a fan girl side… expressing it through an existing character though, is just creepy LOL.
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And strangely … Blizz has been going out of its way to show small cracks in that shell since he got his new pretty boy body (and all its apparent side-effects). The only time we’ve ever seen him even outright question her orders was at Arathi; when she was slaughtering her own people. I’m also … distinctly suspicious any time a writer (ANY writer) decided to deliberately state that a one-note character intends to die with the very character they are one-note for. That should go without saying, and the fact that you did … lets just say thats a rather common misdirection writing trope.
Bluntly, I’m not as pessimistic as many on here seem to be about Blightcallers chances going forward. Voss is simply not ready to lead the Forsaken, and with no other viable replacements even close to HER level of development (and Calia being an abomination that would be more of an insult to the Forsaken Fanbase than if Turalyon was the next leader of the Night Elves) … the functionalist in me does see Nate as a potential avenue for them (though, admittedly, it would take Sylvie committing a MASSIVE betrayal against the Forsaken to pull off … not the Horde faction).
No there wasn’t, not without retconning her previous established motivations.
Also, Sylvie is also a massive control freak (understandable with what Arthas put her through) who has implied that she’s not particularly fond of relying on others to decide her fate (she seems to only rely on the Horde and Forsaken because she has no alternatives). If this girl found a method to avoid her eternity (say … a deal with a Death God) which would result in her not HAVING to rely on others to save herself from her own afterlife; she would take that chance in a heartbeat.
Sylvanas is in her end game now. Whatever it is … its big, even she mentions as much. The idea that she is setting things up to where she may have to abandon the Horde (and even the Forsaken) to accomplish her goals; is a very likely possibility. She’s probably found an “out”.
So you’re saying she burned Teldrassil and started the war as her end of a deal with a death god for more power/getting out of her afterlife? That would be an interesting development if true. It’s way better than her doing it because she was mad or something.
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Ask yourself … what is the purpose of having the Horde PC end up in a deal with Bwon for 3 Million Souls? Has it had ANY relevance on the plot since it happened? From what we’ve seen from the story, does it seem like it actually even mattered in any way? Nope! Nothing! Nada!
However, what it DOES do is allow the players to understand a bit better about how Death Entities operate. Their power is apparently proportional to the amount of souls they have in their dominion; and MORE importantly, they apparently have the ability to “Bless” Champions with the ability to send them the souls of ANYONE that that champion is responsible for killing. So … that Deal with Heyla was still know little about? What sort of soul count could Heyla rack up with the Warchief of the Horde being “responsible” for so many deaths (not just Alliance either, but she holds responsibility for the Horde deaths in this war she started too).
The OLD Text of Ogmot’s Journal (before it got altered for released patch).
“Today the smoke rose from my campfire and took form.”
“A shepherd, cloaked in the shadows of her past, beloved by a flock of blind sheep.”
“She guided them over a cliff. Even as they crashed upon the rocks, they never doubted her.”
“The crows grew fat upon sheep flesh. Her laughter echoed all around.”
Sylvanas is the Shepherd. Her blind sheep, the Horde and Forsaken (note how the Devs outright stated she still has the support of the Horde people atm). The cliff is this war … she led her sheep off of. The Crows … we’ll they’re Heyla (growing “fat” on the sheep “flesh” from this war).
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Hmmm. I can’t decide if I like it buuuuut I like it in the way that it makes sense for Sylvanas…
I thought the deal with Helya just had something to do with the Valkyr and getting back at Odyn but i guess there could be more to it potentially. I guess we will be seeing soon lol.
How so? The Night Elves were in their own home, minding their own business, when the Orcs (and Humans) invaded, and started desecrating their lands.
Just like they were in their own homes, minding their own business, when Sylvanas drew out and feinted their military, then proceeded to wage war on the remaining city guard and civilians.
The arrows to the face should have been a clue they weren’t welcome, and should pack up and move somewhere else.
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Arrows to the face is the customary orcish greeting sacking your city and killing everyone is thd goodbye
So does Nathanos? I’m not saying that work would be put into Voss. But I am saying I don’t see that work being put into Nathanos, either.
Aboms don’t get identified as Forsaken, nor do skeletons. Humans turned undead are Forsaken.
Phenotype =/= what they actually are. A dolphin looks a lot like a fish - but it isn’t.
You can’t “force” someone to forget themselves; they chose - because they have free will - to be where they are.
No, they’re not.
Their biological birth races need to eat.
Sleep.
Drink.
Etc.
Forsaken do not.
They’re biologically different.
Maybe they shouldn’t have been hunting down their undead ancestors. I imagine if I tried to re-kill my parents they wouldn’t let me back in their house either.
“Wah! I’m alive! Therefore I deserve the place you’ve built!”
Entitlement.
No, what’s bad is your illogic.
You keep saying they are but their biology is so different that they don’t even have to perform the once necessary tasks that their racial counterparts do.
When you have no need for organs that indicates a difference in biology.
A very big one.
So their biology is different.
Which indicates that they’re a different race/species.
“But they look the saaaaaaaaaame!”
Phenotypical appearance =/= how their biology actually works.
You’re an enemy, basically a raised PoW. Not to mention it appears that all who’re raised actually defect of their own free will. Yeah, you can call it “bad writing” (which it is), but that doesn’t change the lore fact that they still have free will and are perfectly capable of making their own choices.
Except that your little warden buddies in Darkshore disprove this; she gets raised and seems to be very cognizant. She’s not in a “battle rage”; she was very capable of making her own decision - which wasn’t elaborated on, but still.
Serve her.
Leave.
Re-die.
Those are your options still.
And then start another war up because we’ll be back to square one and the factions can never seem to keep their peace.
It’s not just “my own conclusion”, it’s:
- The characters’ conclusion.
- Historically backed.
All evidence points to the contrary, meaning this statement is nowhere near as valid.
“I get everything I want and have all the plot armor!”
No.
Defection:the desertion of one’s country or cause in favor of an opposing one.
< Kind of like what Saurfang did.
< Kind of like what Baine is doing.
Weird, right? Maybe check the definitions yourself.
It’s almost like Horde and Alliance lost/gained just as much then if both sides are having the same complaints.
It had nothing to do with them “moving” anywhere. Hell, them getting attacked (as its established) had nothing to do with them even harvesting trees in Ashenvale. As it is presented the reason Cenarius and the NEs under him attacked the Warsong Clan was that he sensed the Fel Taint in them and assumed they were agents of the Legion; and thus intended to eradicate them before a foothold situation occurred. There was no “leaving” to be had, that was not an option.
Literally, the NE/Orc relationship started out with an attempted genocide by the NEs under their Demigod patron.
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Despite all the hyperbole about his fanboy of a writer, Nathanos conceptually does have a FAR deeper and more established lore for him built than Voss does (she really does not have a lot going for her atm). Beyond that (and here is they KEY part) … Blightcaller has actually been a member of the Forsaken since Vanilla (and Voss, EVEN NOW, implies that she is only working for the Horde due to being conscripted by threat). So its not even the lack of established story and lore that needs to be overcome, its the connection to her people which is the BIGGEST problem.
ATM, Voss is ideologically a great Forsaken leader (in that she is the living embodiment of Forsaken Free will, but a form of that does not come at the expense of the Free Will of others like Sylvie’s does). However, mechanically … she’s not much better off than Alonsus Faol in regards to her actual relationship and standing with the Forsaken people. She is an UNDEAD with SOME shared experiences, but not enough. THAT is something Nate does not have to worry about.
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There was every oppurtunity to. Instead of spending the time and resources to entrench yourself in hostile territory, you spend it to get out of Ashenvale. Then you tell the folks back in Durotar that things have gone south with the natives, and it’s time to get back in the boat, and find somewhere where your corruption is less of an issue.
Practically the only thing in ten thousand years the Night Elves could be bothered to leave Ashenvale and Hyjal for was C’thun and his bugs making moves in Silithus. Cenarius is not going to chase them across land and sea, going all “To the ends of the earth!”, like Arthas (or Daelin).
You’re better than that, and you know it. Or, at least, I thought I knew it.
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I got curious so I looked it up, and one of the Cdev interviews said that Cenarius believed that the orcs were scouts of the legion because of the residual fel taint. If that’s the case, then why would chasing them out of Ashenvale be the only goal? Why allow a potential legion incursion to remain just because they weren’t around their trees anymore?
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ahh the more innocent days of warcraft moral arguments
And I thought Night Elves hated burning trees
I used to be a logger like you, until I took an arrow to the face.
I ascribe to the Sylvanas as a death goddess theory, as admittedly barely supported as it is.
Mostly because it fits motivations and circumstantial possibilities, with no real direct evidence. It serves Sylvanas’s personality and M.O. - it is self serving and keeps her from the oblivion she fears. It also, if one believes she has, if not affection for, at least investment in, the well being of the Forsaken, her to both protect and give them something greater to support.
Circumstantially, she has been pursuing the trappings of entities that govern over death. The lantern, the dealing with Helya, arguably the dagger depending how you view that. I can see us beating down N’zoth for her to steal its power and use it for an ascension of sorts. She could even dethrone the Lich King and give the Forsaken a true nation of their own.
This also serves the end of removing her as Warchief, without killing her off. And, is completely unsatisfying to a large portion of the player base as she gets no comeuppance whatsoever, so, I mean, that makes it all the more likely.
Also, on the most unsupported, coincidental, and tangentical notion of all, she shares as certain aesthetic motif with the Irish war goddess, The Morrígan;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morr%C3%ADgan
(though google images is worth a peek too!)