You are supposed to cheering for the Horde itself. No one person is greater than the Horde.
It should be Lorthemar- he has all the sensibility of Thrall, is a warrior willing to stand up for his people and fight as we saw in Thunder Isle, he’s got wit and charisma- and he’s not as much of a minor character.
He hasn’t betrayed the Horde, he will fight the alliance when need be- but he’s not going to go looking for fights that don’t need to happen.
He’s basically a reasonable middle ground, and they could easily make him warchief and hero.
Look at the alternatives- Sylvanas is actually a fine warchief, but only for those who want an aggressive, war leader. Saurfang and Baine are straight up traitors, even if they do survive they’ll have the support of nobody but other Horde traitors and those who want the Horde to be something it’s not- a bunch of peace loving pushovers and slaves to the Alliance.
Gallywix is a perfect goblin- but no other race will take orders from him, and actually running the Horde isn’t profitable, if it was they wouldn’t mostly live in dirt huts full of tauren dung.
Soooo… is that everyone? Seems like it- I don’t think they’ll give allied races that much spotlight.
At this point, it’s not just that Lorthemar’s a good candidate, he’s kind of the only reasonable candidate that most Horde could actually get behind right now.
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This is exactly why people despise Baine and Saurfang. They’re tyrants- if you don’t have the sort of honour I like (which includes, by the way, selling out to the Alliance, trying to commit suicide, helping enemies to survive, and killing Horde soldiers), then you deserve to die. In every way they’re even worse than Garrosh- at least he had the dream of making the Horde strong when he betrayed those he didn’t deem ‘true Horde’. Baine and Saurfang are betraying the Horde because their dream is to see the Horde weak, domesticated slaves again.
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Sourfang didn’t rebel against Sylvanas until Anduin told him to.
Baine didn’t rebel against Syvlanas when he saw things happen to the Tauren. But the moment something bad happened to the Alliance? Well Baine had to make a stand.
When did Horde values become centered around serving the Alliance?
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Skullgrin votes Kaz the Skrieker for Warchief. Kaz would burn down the Alliance and take all their skulls.
I can be your hero. . .
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I will be the new Horde hero for everyone to cheer for!
/flex
Along the same line, our beloved Miss Eyegouge would bring a lot of enthusiasm tho the Horde. She must have some kind of epic neck piece to be able to yell like that and not get exhausted.
Skullgrin took trip to Outland and saw the Path of Glory. Such beautiful monument to bones and skulls. So many faces taken to make that happen.
Horde need Warchief that would make new monument of bone and skull! Take all the faces! Take faces for glory! Skullgrin demand Warchief that would take faces and amass bones!
Old orc not let Skullgrin take faces. Boss lady let Skullgrin take Alliance faces. Skullgrin still like Kaz, but boss lady has good skull and bone policy.
I have to disagree with you on this one, bud.
Saurfang rebelled against Sylvanas by basically going freelancer on the battlefield. I guess the argument is HOW he rebelled against Sylvanas. Was it when he was fully prepared to leave the Horde and die with honor by walking into the Alliance forces or before that when he came up with the idea.
Saurfang was ripe for rebellion after Sylvanas burned Tendrassil. At that point the only part of him that hadn’t betrayed the “warchief” was his sense of loyalty to the Horde. During the events between Legion and BFA (I guess early BFA) we basically know he opposes Sylvanas. Anduin only gave him a slight nudge in the right direction.
The primary point when it comes to Horde values WAS about honor above all other attributes and Sylvanas is completely against honor. When you ask about “Horde values become centered around the Alliance” it doesn’t take into account that the Horde has worked with the Alliance before in other situations because the Horde helps the Horde, and the Horde fights with honor.
Basically (tl;dr) Horde values do not oppose their working with the Alliance as long as the cause does not oppose the Horde’s sense of honor. Sylvanas opposed honor in its entirety, therefore Saurfang opposed her. By any logic the true Horde is Saurfang because he is not willing to sacrifice the Horde’s honor because of the one person in charge.
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The Horde already has a hero, and it is the Banshee Queen.
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Sourfang didn’t rebel. He tried to kill himself. Unless you are meaning to imply suicide is a form of rebellion against Sylvanas, the person that can bring bodies back to life after death?
Yes. When the player character busted out Sourfang, he did not want to leave. When Anduin told him it was time to fight Sylvanas, he lept into action.
So every one of Sourfangs actions indicate he had no inclination to actually run a rebellion against Sylvanas until Anduin told him to.
First Sourfang wanted to die. But Anduin had plans for him, so he didn’t kill him. Then Sourfang refused to get out of jail, to start his rebellion originally…until Anduin brought forth those previously mentioned plans.
Sourfang has no honor. He is a hypocrite whenever he cites it. If he had true honor, he would have done something without Anduin telling him to. If he had true honor he would not have abandoned the Horde.
At this point he is just Anduin’s puppet. As his actions clearly show that is all he is.
Not really. A good chunk of civilians were saved, but not because Sylvanas waited for them to evacuate. There was even a quest that shows it is useless to try and save everyone.
Many, many, many kaldorei would not leave even when told to. Malfurion was supposed to die, by the Banshee Queen’s plans, but Saurfang stayed his hand.
The whole thing went from occupation to take their land and use their ports to straight up genocide. Play from the Alliance perspective and you will see that.
I was really hoping some of the writers were tied up in the layoffs, unfortunately Christie Golden is still here.
The current writers dont seem to grasp what the players find exciting anymore and just try and go off shock value alone.
No depth, no pride, no drive, just a complete wipe of who or what the player is and stands for between each expansion, and now between each patch. We stopped being a driving force and just became another kid on this short bus of a story.
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No, writing is good actually.
These people don’t exist except among the religious. Ideology, culture, interests intrinsically divide people. As an Alliance player, I like almost none of our leaders. I find none to be exceptionally heroic or interesting except maybe Genn and Moira, and now Tyrande thanks to Darkshore. On the other hand, I loved Vol’jin (RIP died far too soon) and I still think Sylvanas is one of the most interesting characters in all of Warcraft. She’s perfectly fine as warchief, probably even their best one, and I think all the backlash is frankly ridiculous. If it teaches me anything at all, it’s that real world sociological, psychological and historical norms don’t work in an analysis on Fake Politics, probably because players still have their IRL ideologies and socialization.
This one speaks the truth. Dark lady watch over you.
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More like they need to stop killing and ruining our heroes for the sake of pushing the plot.
We had Thrall, who was an awesome warcheif, but he got sad and ditched us. Ok fine, we still had some good heroes like garrosh, cairne, and Voljin to rally around.
Garrosh before the late events of Mop was probably one of the best heroes the horde had. He pretty much symbolized the horde, and I have yet to hear a better “for the horde” than his. But we had to slap him with the villain bat because lolplot.
Cairne died due to plot, and it sucks because he would have been the perfect hero to rally around. Again he symbolized a lot of what the horde was too and made a great advisor to a warcheif. His son is a disgrace in comparison.
Voljin ended up a wasted character, and I loved him. But after leading the rebellion dafuq he actually do? The player character and less sad thrall ran the show in Wod and then he died to a trashmob. He could have been amazing and was wasted.
All that was left is sylvanas and they are hitting her hard with the villain bat so far. Blizzard needs to stop using horde heroes as a plot device for villains and let them stand tall.
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I think you are mistaken here. In this case you can see that much of the Horde sides with Sylvanas and blindly follow her. Saurfang’s rebellion was to not fight for Sylvanas’ Horde. He went out to die with honor because at least then he would die for his own reasons and not for Sylvanas’. At that point it seemed like the Horde was almost completely backing their Warchief despite her dishonorable actions so he made a choice to die with what little honor he had left, only stopped by a young troll who reminded him that he himself could do something about it, but maybe not at that moment.
When Anduin captured Saurfang he didn’t convince him to rebel because Saurfang already hated Sylvanas and her “Horde”, Anduin simply gave him the opportunity he was looking for. By all intents and reason Saurfang was already looking for a way to rebel that would bring about the greatest effect, it was Anduin’s offer that gave him the necessary resources Saurfang needed to act.
Saurfang has great honor, refusing to fight for Sylvanas. He also isn’t a moron and going into a pointless fight that wont free his Horde from Sylvanas’ rule. Because of that you could say Saurfang has a higher honor. Saurfang isn’t just interested in his own honor, but the honor of the whole Horde. In the end, Saurfang does make the greatest leader of the Horde by not only demonstrating a concern for his own honor and values but also the values of the Horde in general.
What opportunity did Anduin give Sourfang that we…the player…did not already give him? Anduin left the jail cell open. So did we.
Sourfang has great honor, because he didnt go into a pointless fight that won’t free his Horde from Sylvanas? Then what was his suicidal attack against the Alliance? It was a pointless fight that wouldn’t (and didn’t) free the Horde from Sylvanas’s rule. And I refuse to use “his Horde”. It stopped being “his Horde” when he abandoned it.
I can raise a mug to that.