I think their goal is to write Alliance as innocent for Alliance players first and foremost. Like they want Blues to think of their faction like it can do no wrong. Not Horde players, Alliance players. On the contrary, they want Horde players to not see that innocence. The problem is that they keep forgetting to give Horde proper motivations and development.
This is just my theory.
Then your theory is just objectively wrong.
The Horde PC is CONSTANTLY forced to work with the representatives of that Alliance innocence and purity. And are never exposed to Alliance malevolence or brutality, because its simply not allowed to exist. With the “only” real instance of it we had being a clear unreliable narrator in the Rastakhan fight for our side. While Blizz goes out of its way to not only have the Horde do horrific things throughout their stories that the Horde themselves have to take part in (the WoT), but also HIDE uglier evils from them for only the Alliance PC to see.
Or did 3+ years of ACTIVE shaming the Horde playerbase for what Blizz forced the Horde Faction (without luxuries like motives) to take part in … not queue you off enough of that dichotomy?
So essentially you want to dump the Horde problems on the Alliance and you wonder why people resist? Besides it won’t work anyways, Alliance has tons of logical motivations and justifications to argue their bad actions.
But if you want the Alliance to do inexplicable bad things just look at Blood Elf starting zone and attacks on the Vulpera.
You are contradicting yourself.
No, I don’t mind that the Horde has the capacity for flaws, and thus the capacity for evil. I just don’t like how Blizz uses the ability to have flaws as synonymous with evil; and how the Alliance aren’t capable of flaws, or “grey”, or just outright evil. The Purity Test must be maintained.
But the fact that you again tried to shift the discussion to me just wanting to “flip the script” just goes to show that you don’t actually mean you want “Grey” added back into the Alliance. And like so many other Blues on here, BfA bothers you simply because your Moral Purity is being used to shackle and restrict your expected Absolutist Power Fantasy. After all. Whats the point of being ALL Good if you cant be ALL Powerful too?
Maybe, I can’t know what the writers are thinking. Or rather, what they are told to do. All I’m trying to do is rationalize the very confusing story we’ve been getting.
I would agree that there is intentional reversion back to good race/evil race, but Blizz can’t seem to commit to that, too. They keep making the Horde do something stupid, then turn around and have NPCs call it “noble” or whatever. So honestly, I have no idea what they want me to think.
It’s the dishonesty I don’t like from certain alliance posters. Like, just say what you really want and stop pretending you don’t want to hurt the horde and it’s players even more, you know?
It seems like I’m the only one who’s been consistent and honest about what I want from the alliance. 
When exactly did this happen? Because last I checked, in BfA, they had an entire cinematic devoted to the idea that “The Horde has never had Honor, we don’t know it, and “maybe” the next generation might be worthy of it”? The only reason the Horde gets away with what Blizz forces them to do without luxuries like “motives”, or “means”, and at best “forced opportunity” … is because they cannot destroy a Player Faction in a two Faction game. Which is why the very same WC3 Vision of the Faction they constantly kill off and silence representatives for (and run away from ever developing every chance they get) … they also regularly use as a bludgeon to save the faction from Blizz’s own WC1-WC2 fun.
BfA really did beat you guys over the head, through Saurfang no less, that the horde has always been Evil Monsters who just can’t help themselves. And that’s just as malicious as everything else they been knowingly doing the last 10+ yrs.
So we have moved on from you asking Alliance to have inexplicable to motivations for their actions to you respecting Horde’s capacity for evil? What?
You earlier attributed having a character or faction having a reasonable motivation for their actions is somehow whitewashing.
So either you want to flip the script or you want genuine improvements. Which is it?
I don’t think you even know what morally grey even is since you take issue with characters having the bare minimum of logical reasoning for their actions.
At the beginning of the expansion I was made to play the victim’s role as you played the abuser role.
If you get to complain about being made into an abuser in your story then I am perfectly within my rights to complain about being made into a victim for your Absolute Faction Powerfantasy.
See this is a two way street.
Can you tell me where the thread is that asked something like “What makes night elf players think the night elves are strong”?
In Ardeweald, I believe. I am not sure, but I vividly remember a bunch of Alliance players making fun of it.
It’s not that I don’t agree with you, I just can’t figure out why Blizz chooses to write like this and I simply don’t want to think it’s some kind of malicious decision by someone who has a b*ner for WC1 Horde.
I think I’ve stated multiple times on these forums how much I hate the “evil race” trope and I like Horde mainly because it subverts it. Or used to, at least. Call it cope, but I want to believe the writing we’ve been getting is like that because of mishandling and not 100% intentional.
Warcraft 3 was almost 20 years ago.
The writers wanted the Horde to have a new and improved “we are better than this” storyline as a refresher course for new players.
Yup, you’ve done a good job of making the case why you dislike the alliance story beats while being reasonable about other people’s perspectives. You’re ironically one of the best actual advocates for fixing the Night elf/worgen story since you’re not doing it out of a place of anger towards other players. When I see someone demanding their satisfaction not coming from a well told story, but instead wanting to dominate other players through an awful story that only caters to one side of the playerbase (isn’t that what pvp is for? Go camp a lowbie or something to get it out of your system, folks), its very easy to dismiss their issues.
I’m not even against a lot of the issues blueside players have with their faction being resolved, just that it’s really irritating that certain posters want to set a standard that their own side doesn’t meet for morality. Demanding huge “punishments” to other players for a story beat they didn’t want, and then willfully being childish about when your side’s own sins pop up is just inane, and while none of us here really have any power to affect the course of the story going forward, isn’t productive at all.
Is revenge power fantasy for you? Because in that case, the Alliance have never known that, in the game’s whole existance.
There was no justice for Gilneas, or Southshore at the end of mop. It took until legion for a small measure of revenge to come, and that small aprt has been held against the Alliance since.
So apologies if I get irked that the one time, the one moment of satisfaction that the Worgen ever got, is used by Horde posters to show that the Alliance is no better than the Horde, despite everything else pointing towards the opposite. Do you understand why i’m so prickly about revenge?
I’m fine with tangliable flaws for the Worgen. just don’t deny me my revenge, or some other form of catharsis, alright?
Just curious, what do you think my power fantasy is? To not be tread upon like dirt, like the Worgen has for eleven years? If so, yes I guess that’s true, but I think that is also pretty reasonable.
LOL, wut? The Horde has almost no presence in Ard. And unless you actually join the Covenant, you aren’t even likely to know Bwon is even in that zone (or Jin). And they only get like a single questline. Beyond that though, they have an entire scenario where Ysera watches a reenactment of Teldrassil and weeps openly.
As someone who only did the Revandreth covenant before bailing for classic, I legitimately can’t remember what the bread crumb was that even was supposed to take me to the other side. Was there even one?
I can’t look through quests for you right now, but from what I remember it was during the reenactment. But it doesn’t even matter.
There were smaller examples of genuine weirdness shortly before SL came out, like the Forsaken racial description that again, many people made fun of. I don’t know if Blizz changed it or not, never looked into it.
Not gonna lie, I’ve had my crazy statement making moments, we’ve gotten a little too emotional over the story(else why the hell are we even here talking about it?) but I’m also aware that you guys have gotten it just as bad as my side, for completely different reasons.
No one side has it worse than others, like the NE/Worgen have some very complicated issues that need to be addressed, just like the various horde races have serious issues that need to be addressed, but that doesn’t require one side beating the absolute snot out of the other for some artificial feel good moment.
I, personally just want ONE kick butt worgen moment, and it doesn’t even need to involve the horde. It could be them steamrolling the local ogre population for all I care.
Don’t you want to kill some of the Forsaken in Gilneas territory? Amazing.
Honestly even if neither become full “capitols”, I think it’d be a good start for the Worgen to fully retake Gilneas from whatever feral scourge/worgen/ettins are still there, and for the night elves to be actually shown re-populating Hyjal as their home. (It was their home for millennia, Teldrassil was a thing for like, 30 years tops)