This does not undo the perception that Night Elves are weak pushovers whenever the Horde shows up.
This does not undo the perception that the Horde is evil.
You can wave around the retcon all you like to boards like this one, but only boards like this one will care. The impression will not have been countered. Sorry, there needs to be something better than this, something that solves both problems.
You get nothing because we owe you nothing. Easy as that. Get over yourself.
Great, we continue to be rude to you.
It does because if Teldrassil is undone, then the Night Elves pushed the Forsaken/Horde out and saved the tree.
It does, because the genocide never happened. Thus nothing to base it on.
There isn’t.
Hang on, your retcon involves the Horde plotting what by the UN’s standards qualifies as a genocide, and they are pushed out?
Sure, it solves my issue, which is great, but are you quite sure that it solves yours?
I sincerely don’t get why nelf fans feel entitled to having their race be equally as powerful as an entire faction.
They were shown to be able to stall a major offensive with their standing army away on a mission to kill Horde in Silithus.
They were shown to have taken back Darkshore on Alliance side, and Blizzard said it was canonical.
These are not feats of weak people.
Anything less than the Nelves being able to be mary sue powerhouses who have no faults is seen as a giant insult, and I just don’t get it.
Ah, those motivations were swept under the rug except for the time they weren’t. Is Saurfang and Sylvanas mentioning it not enough? How many times do they need to mention it before it becomes an “allowed grievance?”
Alliance grievances are rarely brought up more than once too, and even then it’s usually by specific characters rather than groups of people. Southshore has only been brought up once in passing in a completely unrelated front (and they got who committed the act wrong) and Genn is pretty much the only one who brings up Gilneas. Ditto with Jaina and Theramore. Other things that stick out in my mind are things like Andorhal and Hillsbrad Fields which have never been brought up by anyone but I don’t think that makes them less valid as motivations. They certainly motivate me a whole bunch.
Teldrassil does get brought up more yes but even then, it’s largely in the context of Tyrande-specific scenarios. As a general rule it’s rare for any character in WoW to have a memory beyond Goldfish-tier no matter which faction they’re from, if we’re going solely by how often they explicitly acknowledge past events.
It seems more like Alliance players are just more passionate about their grievances against the Horde than Horde players are about their grievances against the Alliance which, if you don’t play Alliance, might make it look more like Alliance grievances are constantly being laid out and cited in-game but they really aren’t.
Because the only way to do what you are asking for is to either have nearly every non-human race have a human counterpart that uses most/if not all of the same architecture/culture or to just outright remove the non-human races and just give their culture to a human character.
The narrative has always been that everyone can be good or evil. If you didnt notice Bastion is filled with souls from every race of Azeroth. Being a white guy does not mean you are automatically good(as shown by the Scarlet Crusade in Revendreth/Maw)
The noble savage trope can easily apply to Thrall and Draka and yet they are both participating in it. While I do wish Baine does get used more, WoW has a tendency of shifting the spotlight every expansion or so. Who know, maybe Baine will end up leading the next expansion all on his own(heck, Jaina was pretty much not in the picture until about Wrath, Tyrande only had brief apperances here and there and those were characters from Warcraft 3)
That’s because you’re tacking things to the scenario that the War of the Thorns presents - which ignores logistics, demands that the Alliance make moves engineered to make the Horde’s offensive work, and changes things as the situation demands.
I regard the tacking to this scenario as inappropriate.
As for Darkshore, I’m not sure why you believe that the Night Elves losing three zones and getting one back is supposed to be satisfying. There’s also the little matter that no Horde player had to experience that loss, because every time they played the Warfront, it showed them as winning.
Our army still sailed away for an idiotic reason. And if the army of night elves in the scenario of Baalsamael also floats away … then you are finished, since the civilians extinguished the catapult fire and drove the Horde out of Darkshore. The army will therefore be even more effective.
I don’t think Baine can carry an expansion as the lead. I would have guessed that his “best” shot would have been Shadowlands as a concept, but even that’s on thin ice because he himself isn’t any sort of spiritwalker or shaman; he’s just a plain ol’ warrior. He doesn’t really do much, and his personality is incredibly milquetoast. Not to mention, as a horde racial leader, you’d probably get a ton of alliance complaints of “his faction were the villains and now I have to work with him?”
Nope, no fire in this AU. That entire Sylvanas Warbringer cinematic never happens.
Some boats try to get to Teldrassil, sieging from the boats, minor fire in that one flightpath point forgot it’s name outside the tree, fire is put out and boats pushed back.
I’m not asking for that, I’m saying that the IRL Global South cultures are the Monster/Animal Races, and that needs to be recognized as the reality.
You claimed earlier that in-game humans are meant to represent all IRL humanity.
Which is incorrect.
Yes but making the Global South Race faction the “Evil Faction” after 6 years of narrative choices by the devs has implications, regardless of the minor details in Shadowlands.
Thrall yes, Draka no.
And Thrall is walking back from the Noble Savage trope by picking up Doomhammer plate again.
lol
Will the Horde then kill Sylvanas or pretend “we have nothing to do with it”?
And there it is.
The “I want Horde players” punished narrative.
The reason I can’t take any argument by people like you or Morghel seriously. When your entire MO is to want to ruin other people’s enjoyment of the game, there’s no argument against that.
There is nothing that will make you happy. Why even try if you’re Blizzard?
Are you gonna respond at all, or have you blocked me or something?
Blizzard is going in hard on the “Cosmic War” as the driving force in Warcraft going forward and honestly considering the power levels we’re now talking about we’re running out of anyone who can feasibly lead an expansion on that basis. The guy who is serving as the expansion lead right now was literally the Lich King. It’s crazy to consider how he went from an entity that was widely regarded as the “final boss of WoW” back in the day to a guy who gives out world quests and keeps getting pwned.
I mean, I think there’s a lot of runway for him to be a better character, but people do have to give him the chance to be.
At this point, I think of the Horde playerbase’s attitude towards Baine in the same vein as the senior partner’s attitude towards the intern. They’re never going to grow if you don’t let them.
There’s no fire, but now there is fire? So they attempted it and failed?
What I was criticizing before was Saurfang and Sylvanas’s plot to end the Night Elves as a people, but this is escalating in its retention of Horde issues - which you might be surprised to hear that I’m not okay with. Again, glad that you’re preserving Teldrassil, but the Warcraft 3 Horde still goes up in smoke on this one.
If you experience a loss, that is of far more consequence than if you don’t and you are merely informed of the loss.
You attempting to twist it not withstanding. My point is that Blizzard actually DID make us go through that, they spared it for you.
You ruined our experience with the game. Why shouldn’t we be willing to spoil your experience?
Damn, how did you know that I personally wrote the burning of teldrassil?
(Seriously lol, y’all are ridiculous)
I said no burning the whole tree
Which is unavoidable, Saurfang is dead and Sylvanas is gone.
It successfully solves everyone’s long-term problems caused by their trash, failure of a story.
Being, again: