So is the Horde the poor faction tread upon the writers by being forced into a villainous role for the sake of the completely pure and untouchable Alliance or is the Horde the completely justified faction that was merely defending itself from the callous aggression of the smelly Alliance
Cuz you guys seem to just pivot between which ever one is convenient for any given post. It’s hard to come up with solutions to problems when nobody is even consistent with what the problem is.
Um … Are you sure you want to include in the Alliance’s atrocities the support for the overthrow of the Horde government given to another part of the Horde, a “noble, heroic” part of the Horde itself?
This has been a point of frustration for me as well but I always just chalked it up as different posters with different opinions.
The Horde has done worst in game than concentration camps.
But yeah I imagine defending a CC in world quest would suck hard too.
That is because it was an RTS and not a MMO, like what we have now(the campaign was a one and done thing and I didnt have to nearly be reminded constantly Lordearon was gone). I certainly sympathize with night elf fans in that they ended up losing a city they loved and I was absolutely PISSED at Warcraft 3 that its two Alliance campaign was one where Arthas ended destroy Lordearon and another showing the blood elves leave.
If not for me wanting to see Arthas dead I might not have ever played WoW.
They were bad because of the actions they took. WoW has constantly reference other timelines and that Garrosh could have been a good guy, he chose to do the worse possible things in the world.
As for supposed whitewashing, it is not so much things are whitewash(even Anduin had to mention Daelin and Arthas) but as a rule because the Alliance was always in better shape it didnt need to go to war. The Alliance always had established kingdoms and were not interested in expansion.
They couldn’t due to two things. 1) it would require a retcon. Most of the kingdoms were establish to be medieval affaires. 2) Warcraft/WoW did not have the resources to make diverse enough assets. Heck, Alterac or Stromgarde basically reused the same assets in WoW Classic.
Did you ignore what I just said? Here let me remind you: https://youtu.be/0Oy4VQLt-tk?t=91
“A true warrior would simply take the pass from the humans”. And no Grom, killing a giant demon didn’t suddenly solve the Horde’s penchant for violence. And that is the problem, the Horde never truly learned.
Not until Cata. And NOTHING in the Alliance story ever mentions how those same Dwarves genocided a Tauren tribe for the terrible sin of living above the place they wanted to dig into.
Heck, even after Cata I still feel sad when I get close to Bael Modan, cause for me it is infinitely sadder to realize that the dying Stonespire Tauren NPC is the last of his tribe. “Killing” the guilty Dwarf party didn´t magically erase the depressing fact that the Stonespire are still dead and their loss is still absolute. Not even an amount equivalent to Ironforge worthy of dead dwarf NPCs will remove the sadness I feel when I imagine all those stories I could have gotten involving the Stonespire; for me the dead bodies of dwarves are meaningless.
Nowadays I care more for protecting the few things I have left in my favorite faction instead of trying to destroy the stuff I dislike in the Alliance side. I don´t even want to see, hear or interact with the Alliance, period.
Personally I think that for most posters logical consistency is secondary to the dopamine hit that comes from being mad on the internet and making angry posts about it.
ahhh yeah that’s the stuff
Its possible. I mean when you can apply that infamous T quote “They’re drug dealers, they’re criminals, they’re rapists…” to pretty much any Horde race and have it be true … while the classic EuroFantasy races are all treated like flawless paragons of every virtue conceived (especially those of a specific “Light” faith) … its hard not to see a theme. Hell, remove the tech from WoW Gobs and you straight up have the anti-Semitic trope Harry Potter Gobs of that universe. And for fun, lets throw in the generally pretty agnostic Horde elves for that “non-religious people don’t know what morality is and can’t be good” schtick.
You see, you resisted and you took revenge. In my version, you should just stand and do nothing. Absolutely nothing.
I can’t believe that Donald Trump ruined the Horde
And each time we pushed back against it before it was released where able
Where able, because we were promised by the devs, “Teldrassil isn’t what it seems, wait and see”, and it was exactly what we thought.
Because WoW’s universe is built upon the fact the Non-Western, Non-White, Non-Anglo peoples of the world are instilled into the Animal/Monster Races.
It is not a bug it is a feature.
“Azeroth is a world of grey.”
Because you didn’t exactly give me any options. It was either “you get revenge or recompense, but in return you get villainbatted”, or nothing. So I said why not, the status quo sucks. But clearly, this was just a trap. No matter what I say, or how I say it, what I agree to, you’re not going to say that it’s okay to have a resolution for Teldrassil involving the Horde. So i’m just stonewalled by you.
I know that, I understand it fully. I completely understand that bfa sucked hard for you, as did mop, and cata, because you hated the villainbatting. I get it.
What i’m saying is, to me there must a resolution for Teldrassil, and it must involve the Horde. because no matter how you twist or turn it, having the Horde walk away after what they did, for the second time, would be an even more devestating blow than Teldrassil was. That’s all. And I would honestly, personally, take the villain batting if that was the requirement for a resolution. That’s how important it is to me.
Yea, that would be great. Really great even. Won’t argue about that. But Teldrassil is still more important to me, simple as that. It’s an all consuming black hole that drags everything into it, and it will continue to do that until a resolution is found.
Both actually… cause as per WC3 -the actual precursor to WoW- the Horde was THE faction merely tring to defend from Alliance harrasement and later the writers systemathically erased any indication of Alliance proactiveness in regards to this harrasement, all to ultimately put the blame of the violence solely on the Horde´s shoulders.
The solution is to take space and let the factions develop independently from each other for at least one expac or two. Cause after the joke that was BfA narrative wise, only more toxicity can be gained from insisting on a collective scenario involving both factions -you know, like couples teraphy. If they regularly resor to physical blows maybe the adviced is to get them to live separately for a while…-
And who should move out of the house, if the house belongs to the victim, even if she uses only one room, and the beating one came from another house, from which he fled, and before that he lived in a completely different country, which he himself led to inevitable destruction?
…
Who should move out of the house?
This is no resolution that is possible within the narrative that would make sense and be satisfactory and productive for both factions playerbase. It is a fundamental impossibility.
It needs to be retcon’d out of existence, whether totally or functionally.
“Sylvanas burned Teldrassil, and many lives were lost, but almost all Night Elves survived and the Ancients summoned rain to put out the fires”
If they’re justified in their actions then they aren’t behaving villainously, which is what was being insisted 10 minutes ago but now we’re back to how they were apparently behaving villainously (because the writers are horrible Trump loving racists apparently) even though we were just told that all their actions are justified.
Is the problem here just that Blizzard didn’t give you guys a parade? Or is the problem here that other posters don’t see it the way that you do?
Blizzard literally had 1 model for most of Warcraft 1-2. Aside from the unit portrays you couldn’t even tell any features on them! We didnt even have any female units sans Alleria and Grizelda in Warcraft 2 and 1 respectively!
Warcraft 3 had a slightly improved model look but it was clear Blizzard only had so much art assets to use. Heck, minus the night elves, all of the races had 1 female unit(nevermind the Horde who didnt have a female unit/hero!). It is also clear from Warcraft Reforged(yes it has ALOT of problems) that if they had the chance they would have added more diverse rosters)
Like it or not their player base at the time was male and possibly white and they did actually need to appeal to them. Heck, this wasn’t just a Blizzard thing, it was a video game thing of the 1990s-2000s
There is only so much you can do for a game. Especially one built in 90s. Nowadays we take for granted most company have budgets bigger then movie studios/we are no longer limited by data space.
And it slowly changed. It went for a game dominated by male white players to now a global game.
We are now literally in a point in Warcraft history were female faction leaders are equal in number to males one. Or did you not notice Sylvanas/Tyrande were the only female leaders in Vanilla WoW? That we actually have LGBT+ characters.
Do you think the night elves will not hold a grudge against you if you just killed them and tried to burn down their house?
Is this really where we are at? Just retconning bad lore wholesale instead of trying to fix it?
Yea that’s gonna go over well. Really grind it into Alli players how awful Teldrassil was, and that those that died went to hell, and then go “sike”.