A wall is a poor defense against an earthquake.
I try not to speak of posters who aren’t actually in a thread. However, you can look through recently created threads on the topic and check out posters that have relatively high ratio of topics/posts, but correspondingly low likes. Even better to actually read the threads themselves to see what they say and see who actually jumps in and what they have to say in response. Those are usually the people who do the most stumping, but receive the least actual support.
Personally, I’m also suspicious when people set their profile to private so that their posting history cannot be seen. But that’s neither here nor there.
There are some posters I just don’t really engage with. Whether I may generally agree with them or not. Usually because other people are quick to jump in and say what I would have said.
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Yeah sure they can be plenty heroic but the problem is the Horde honor has died due to their interactions with the Alliance which were typically grossly violent need to be reestablished by their interaction with the Alliance again.
Otherwise it comes off as either tone deaf or just a lie really.
So how would that be done?
If the Horde’s ‘honor’ is dependent on positive interaction with the Alliance I’d much rather that they continue to be ‘dishonorable’ and simply have no further interaction with the Alliance. Better that than continue the apology tour Baine and Thrall seem to be on.
Furthermore, if the Horde cannot be heroic without licking Alliance boot I’d rather they were just permanently villainized.
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I mean, this is a two faction game, and you don’t get to just secede from the franchise.
Sorry. I would have loved it if that option was extended to me, but it unmistakably wasn’t, that’s part of why we’re here in the first place.
It can be a two faction game without one faction having to bend over and take it from the other faction. And before you lot come in with ‘well too late for that’ the point is that we don’t like that kind of writing and want to get away from it. One side buggering the other or one side being presented ‘holier than thou’ than the other is just perpetuating what we’re already complaining about.
The Horde can be heroes and do heroic things separate from the Alliance. It happens every time we have an expansion that doesn’t focus on the faction war, so there’s no reason for that to stop.
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They don’t have to do that because they have Taretha. I noticed that their recent discussions of Thrall elevate her to be the biggest single individual figure on his life, downplaying all the other orcs who influenced him.
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I mean, you partially saw my reply coming. I’m sure Worgen fans would see where I’m coming from when I say that I feel like at least my part of this faction HAS had to bend over and take it from the other faction, with our resolution being “revenge is bad, focus on renewal” - and that’s just not good enough.
I know that’s a question that you’d rather avoid, but if your answer to us no matter how limited the scenario is “guess you’re screwed forever then, resolving your issues requires something from me and I’m not willing to give an inch on anything” - then I can’t see eye to eye with you, at all. You are once again in such an instance rendering pain on another playerbase for your benefit.
This is why I can’t stand talking to you. You constantly blame other players for things that the writers have done. I didn’t hurt you, the Horde did not hurt you, and if the only way you can be satisfied with yourself is if you cajole and complain the writers into continuing the cycle you claim to hate then you are just a terrible person.
Try to think of a way you can be satisfied without having to convince other people to humiliate themselves for your benefit.
I’m not blaming you for what the writers have done.
I’m blaming you for what you’re saying they should do next.
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Not continue the cycle? Is that really what you are arguing against?
You’re going to find me unreceptive to that rhetoric. I happen to like PVP, and believe that the faction conflict is a core theme of Warcraft. My issue is how it’s been handled - specifically the way it’s been blown up to raise stakes and make it work with PVE-based stories.
Gee, it doesn’t sound like that to me. It sounds like your mad the writers wrote your race losing and then you haven’t been happy with any of the wins they’ve written for your since.
But if you really like PVP and the faction conflict, then you should be able to appreciate that having the Horde humiliate themselves for the benefit of the Alliance wouldn’t be conducive to furthering faction conflict or make since for continued PVP either - let alone do anything to present them as being heroes.
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How is this different than what you are doing when he’s said he doesn’t want what you’re advocating for?
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This is correct.
When you pick winners and losers, as Blizzard did, it undermines the motivation to PVP. Why play if the outcome is already determined, or is meaningless because Blizzard by fiat has determined that your side will constantly and consistently lose because they will it?
This is a fair point, I am however speaking in more general terms about the desire (and Ariel, I see you typing, consider this my reply to you as well) to try and have the Horde wash its hands of the faction conflict and pretend that the Alliance doesn’t exist when we have these longstanding issues with the Night Elves and the Worgen in particular that need to be addressed. From my perspective, it seems awfully convenient for you to say “nope, you don’t get anything - we’re moving on from the faction war now. Peace and renewal and turning the other cheek and all that, have fun with what you’ve been left”.
A) I prepaid for my part of the back and forth that a faction war should have.
B) My solutions attempt to make things satisfying for both sides - which is a position that my opponents don’t seem to have themselves.
Remember how a month later, after multiple people dragged them, they added whip scars to Thrall’s back?
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Thank you for proving my point about you NOT caring over the story but about fixing your hurt ego.
Also, unfortunately for you, this kind of choice wouldn´t affect ONLY you but other players that may NOT like such 10th rate tier treatment, so work a little less in the entlitement and selfishness and a little more in developing empathy for other players.
Your personal feelings are irrelevant in regards to how the rest of the Alliance players would feel if something as awful as this happened, stop trying to make this an issue that would exclusively impact yourself and no one else.
Well, that wonderful comment you are trying to pass as “minor” implies otherwise.
Specially when the story devs themselves have come out to tell us they follow the “No negativity in the Dojo” policy a.k.a. “we don´t give a censored word over the opinion of ANY player regarding the story”. Which is ironically a DIRECT contradiction towards the “candid opinion” you made back on that post. Truth is, Alliance players just like Horde players are NONEXISTANT as far as the story construction for WoW is concerned, and no, QQ is NOT an objective explanation of devs walking back in nartrative development. If they whitewashed the Alliance in the story that happened because they wanted that to happen regardless on how coherent that was for the story and regardless of the narrative consequences for the Horde in those cases, period.
Tl;dr: it is not necessary to use plain obvious insults to end up making rude, unfair or downright ignorant remarks that can hurt other posters, and you WILL have to take that into account in the future and not hide behind the false premise that only open aggresion IS aggresion (cause it isn´t. People can call you idiot with a smile on their face and a bunch of pretty words obscuring the message).
You are blaming him for opposing his faction (the Horde) to be developed and portrayed as subservient of the Alliance as the ONLY way to get “heroic” representation in the story? Really, Kyalin?
Since when you guys need the validation of “Horde humiliation” to satisfy your self esteem, hmm?
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See my prior reply - I am speaking in general terms to the “Horde secession” argument. The precise form it takes is immaterial to me.
What matters is this attitude that the Horde can and should simply secede from the franchise in a way and that we don’t have to resolve the interfactional issues that remain. I get that such is convenient from your perspective, but you’re once again throwing others under the bus.
Well Kyalin, when the ones thrown under the bus act with ZERO empathy regarding our issues, then sorry but I´ll just pay them with the same coin and only care over the benefit for the decent people that could get hurt in your side of the fence ( a.k.a. why should I care over their annoyances when they blatantly disregard ours? I repeat: communication is a 2 way street: you can´t demand empathy from people while you act like a sociopath regarding their own issues).
And before you cry wolf, I mean you as “you people” and not as “you the poster named Kyalin”.
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Ariel, this is really not fair, Kyalin has made many attempts at communication and all compromises have been rejected by many Hordes players, including you.
It is not fair to say that Kyalin never did that, on the contrary. To be honest, quite a few even tried, there were always relatively few hardliners who didn’t care what happened to the horde.
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