The game being centered around difficult content serves to create constant frustration

[Moonshadow-ravenholdt]

I only play on reset day now. And even then I’m trying to get the weekly chores done as fast as possible so I can play a good game instead.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Deadeyê-tichondrius

Running with angsty teens from LFG just makes me want to log off.

If the people for GD who had this complaint joined forces LFG might be empty.

[Tonietta-malganis]

I don’t know what game are you playing, but WoW has always been about tackling challenging content, and getting better rewards the harder the content was, and while Blizzard is making increasingly more effort to appeal to a broader audience, that is the core of WoW.

All these threads of “discontent” are mostly made by the people that reject WoW’s core principle of making social connections to tackle content at varied difficulty levels, each rewarding an appropriate reward.

Sure there’s issues with SL, but subs are dropping, mostly, because people are done with the launch content. It happens every single time once you’re 4+ months into a patch cycle. Anyone that’s been around for more than 10 minutes knows this.

What’s happening is that the forums’ echo chamber is spinning a 15 year old trend into a narrative that fuels their agenda of trying to turn WoW into something that is not.

[Blimpo-thunderhorn (Blimpo)]

@Gordofreeman-goldrinn

The game could really benefit from gettin away from the outdated formula of creating competition and hooking tryharders, and actually focus on creating a fantastic world with plenty of things to do.

This is so spot on. Too bad the current game director can’t even imagine a world without a threat of death… it is so foreign to his way of thinking. Everything has to have a chance of dying associated with it. This is why every ore node has to have a mob by it… they put the archeology nodes smack in the middle of hostile mobs (well back when they did archeology).

You cant even explore without every square inch of land being covered in hostile creatures.

[Spinster-farstriders (Spinster)]

@Gordofreeman-goldrinn

The game could really benefit from gettin away from the outdated formula of creating competition and hooking tryharders, and actually focus on creating a fantastic world with plenty of things to do.

World of Warcraft fans care about the story. Care about the enviroment, scenarios, epicness. Gear is cool too, I’m not saying that is not. But how much frustration is behind the gear you are offering me?

Blizzard lost their way in increments in regards to this and can either go back to that and regain players or let their cornerstone franchise – the one they want to build phone games around – slowly rot away.

They NEED to bring in developers who want to build worlds and world content and new lore. Who want players out in the world more and in instances less. An MMO requires different kinds of players out in the world doing various things to work.

[Blimpo-thunderhorn (Blimpo)]

@Tonietta-malganis

WoW has always been about tackling challenging content

No it was not. It was about exploration, crafting, community; while it had those elements of challenge… the current game designer made it all about gear and raids and only those.

[Akston-area-52]

@Spinster-farstriders

Blizzard lost their way in increments in regards to this

Did they really?

I am quite sure “doing challenging content” has been part of its mainstay since launch.

@Spinster-farstriders

They NEED to bring in developers who want to build worlds and world content and new lore. Who want players out in the world more and in instances less. An MMO requires different kinds of players out in the world doing various things to work

World content instead of instanced content is one of the biggest ways to ensure “casual” players don’t get gear upgrades, experience the content, etc.

@Blimpo-thunderhorn

No it was not. It was about exploration, crafting, community; while it had those elements of challenge… the current game designer made it all about gear and raids and only those

You can still explore if you want to.

Crafting needs some help.

It still has community.

WoW has always been a gear progression game. Wow is not just about “gear and raids”. WoW is not “raid or die” and hasn’t been in a while.

For someone to suggest that raiding in WoW’s primary form of gearing/content feels like they don’t even play the game.

[Sosari-shadowmoon]

Depends on what your focus is. For me it has always been about challenging content from vanilla. Running 10 man Scholomance and 15 man ubrs to molten core.

[Yonbi-illidan (Yonbi)]

@Gordofreeman-goldrinn

The game could really benefit from gettin away from the outdated formula of creating competition and hooking tryharders, and actually focus on creating a fantastic world with plenty of things to do.

Eh… I feel like you need a little of both to be successful.

I do agree there is very little content for the “shut the brain down and have fun for a bit”. A couple of cool easter eggs or fun cosmetics (ghostbusters proton pack and the WQ based starter 2h sword come to mind).

Otherwise it feels mostly like raid/m+ or your weekly torghast chores or bust, basically.

[Padgarre-lightbringer (Padgarre)]

I think the difficult content is good, but how they design it and the rewards around it isn’t necessarily good.

[Spinster-farstriders (Spinster)]

@Tonietta-malganis

I don’t know what game are you playing, but WoW has always been about tackling challenging content, and getting better rewards the harder the content was

Yes that was always in the game. And yet MOST players didn’t raid until LFR came on the scene. That clearly says that, no matter how Blizzard wanted to design the game, most players were not playing it the way they designed it.

Now if your goal as a game designer is to make the game you want to play and the heck with most paying customers? By all means ignore the way MOST players choose to play. Try to force those players to play your way. Take away things they love that don’t fit your vision. Clap your hands over your eyes so you don’t see complaints and just listen to those who play YOUR way. Rig your metrics so that you can do a Powerpoint that shows you are right.

Or, yanno, you could listen to what most players want and HIRE SOMEONE WHO CAN DO THAT. And then roll around in money and make your related phone games for a long, long time.

[Blimpo-thunderhorn (Blimpo)]

@Sosari-shadowmoon

Depends on what your focus is.

Not saying that there should not be challenge… but now, the only things left are not challenging are small, tiny, meaningless chunks of redundant, worthless chores like world quests, daily covenant quests, and the mission table.

[Akston-area-52]

@Spinster-farstriders

Yes that was always in the game. And yet MOST players didn’t raid until LFR came on the scene. That clearly says that, no matter how Blizzard wanted to design the game, most players were not playing it the way they designed it.

LFR wouldn’t have been created if there was not a consumer desire to participate.

People wanted to see the entire raid story, but felt they couldn’t otherwise. Due to not being in a guild, not wanting to commit to a raid schedule, etc. Whatever reason.

@Spinster-farstriders

Now if your goal as a game designer is to make the game you want to play and the heck with most paying customers? By all means ignore the way MOST players choose to play. Try to force those players to play your way. Take away things they love that don’t fit your vision. Clap your hands over your eyes so you don’t see complaints and just listen to those who play YOUR way. Rig your metrics so that you can do a Powerpoint that shows you are right.

LFR forced no one to play in any way.

@Spinster-farstriders

Or, yanno, you could listen to what most players want and HIRE SOMEONE WHO CAN DO THAT. And then roll around in money and make your related phone games for a long, long time.

Considering the success of LFR. I think they did that.

@Blimpo-thunderhorn

Not saying that there should not be challenge… but now, the only things left are not challenging are small, tiny, meaningless chunks of redundant, worthless chores like world quests, daily covenant quests, and the mission table.

Can you give an example of something previously that was not challenging but gave a great reward?

For reference.

I am just struggling to figure out what plethora of non challenging content we previously had that we are missing today.

[Spinster-farstriders (Spinster)]

@Akston-area-52

LFR forced no one to play in any way.

I am pro LFR and wasn’t thinking that LFR forced anyone to do anything when I said “forcing players to play your way.” I was actually thinking of how they crushed LFR into the dust during WoD and made all the gear ugly and basically made a progressive raid or die attempt (and this after players did LFR in MoP until they could do it in their sleep). Anyway, sorry if I was unclear. I knew what I meant so why didn’t you read my mind?

[Zuldazar-malganis]

The game isn’t centered around difficult content, the content difficulty is entirely your choice. If you feel drained from certain difficulties then scale it down.

[Pyri-shadowsong]

@Quizotic-stormrage

if people think the balance team ect is the ones whom design classes or content in general it speaks alot to their understanding on how large companies develop games.

most people here think ion personally writes 98% of the code

[Zelleron-illidan]

How on earth is the game centered around hard content?

[Akston-area-52]

@Spinster-farstriders

I am pro LFR and wasn’t thinking that LFR forced anyone to do anything when I said “forcing players to play your way.” I was actually thinking of how they crushed LFR into the dust during WoD and made all the gear ugly and basically made a progressive raid or die attempt (and this after players did LFR in MoP until they could do it in their sleep). Anyway, sorry if I was unclear. I knew what I meant so why didn’t you read my mind

I get ya now. And I see where you are coming from.

WoD was definitely a bad time for many different playstyles.

[Blimpo-thunderhorn (Blimpo)]

@Akston-area-52

Can you give an example of something previously that was not challenging but gave a great reward?

Just to name a few things in the past that were things to do. Some had a gear component but they were not only about gear:

• Pet battle tournament on Timeless Isle
• Pet collection achievements that awarded rare pets
• Farming Garrison achievement statues - (some were easy some were challenging, but there was something for everyone to get)
• Garrison specific professions like farming lumber (toy, achievements and titles)
• Professions like First Aid - titles and achievements
• The whole Legendary cloak quest - lots of RPG and story in there.
• Reputation based Mounts/Pet/Transmogs (that when unlocked didn’t cost a fortune or some other currency that takes forever to grind)
• Garrison Invasions
• Rares - there used to be more toys and transmogs to farm from mini-world bosses. Today the ones that exist are buried in dense fields of mobs.
• Class Quests - it seemed like they were going down a fun path with the green-fire quest, this seemed to stop
• Mount/pet/transmog farms like the dino-bone farm on Isle of Giants.
• World Bosses - we used to have multiple ones per week. Now the ones we have are buried deep in elite mobs packs. And they used to drop stuff.
• Scenarios - were fun and easy content but they were removed.
• Island Adventures - Raiders did not like them, but causals did , again removed.
• Fishing - there is no new tournament, daily fishing hub, special awards or toys.
• Special hidden vendors - there is no special vendor like the snail guy on timeless, mage guy in Dalaran, Gnome guy in Stranglethorn, Nesingwary in pandaria, etc.
• Special hidden quests/pets - like Liken quest in Ungoro, postmaster quest in Dalaran, Dusty bunny pet in Dalaran. (again just a sample for flavor of the type of things in this category)
• Archeology in general - many casuals used this as a gold farm.

But beyond this, even things that still exist have been altered to make them more challenging like easy grouping for World Quest. They took-away all ability to easily group for world quests, They had to make it “more challenging” (read tedious for most, frustrating for low-geared).

Wow is a hollow shell of itself, layers of texture and flavor have been stripped away leaving a homogeneous core that while appeals to some, is bland and disappointing to those that enjoyed more than just chasing gear.

[Gererick-burning-blade]

What they did is create divergent paths of evolution which have become almost incompatible with one another.

I’ve long thought, they should take the following steps. Remove the ability to implement add ons. Those that serve a purpose should be baked in, everything beyond whatever Blizzard deems necessary should be barred.

Then, they need to hand out a max level gear set to each player upon reaching level cap, and wish them well as they go about whatever end game content they chose.

Create a path of progression for solo/casual, large group, small group, and PVP communities - none of which are advanced or hindered by gear progression but rather by other forms of rewards

Reformat end game content rewards entirely to offer mog-tints, mounts, elite crafting recopies, additional quest chains that offer interesting stories off the main lore arch, special toys, tabards, or titles - in other words progress is not about gear at all

Implement these changes to kill E-Spots finatics, and min maxing completely, reset players’ mindsets so that they do not feel the urge to “rush through the game to enjoy the game”