Yeah, her being a box the Horde needed checked to achieve relevance in a likely Tyranny of the Light angle is exactly how she comes off. And her association with the Forsaken is a bunch of ill-conceived, superficial surface level characteristics: Menethil, Undead, Queen of Lordaeron.
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The only reason the Forsaken are returning to TirisfalâŚis to finish converting UC into a Necropolis and flying it out of there!
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My assumption would be that theyâre retaking Undercity, and the surrounding area, but thatâs not all of Tirisfal. If theyâre mustering in Tirisfal that implies the zoneâs been retaken, does it not? With the obvious exceptions being Undercity itself and the big scar from the Alliance invasion, filled with undead.
Actually, maybe this means the Blight cleansing Macguffin Iâve been saying will show up for years will finally be revealed. That would be nice.
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No. Full Stop. You can muster anywhere, including enemy territory. Itâs why I posted the definition, because you keep saying âyou can only muster in lands you own.â
But letâs cut to the heart of your âUH, AKSHUALLYâ
True or False: 8.3 occurred before Rouxâs book, Shadows Rising
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Itâs really damn obvious you made this thread to argue on something youâre wrong about.
I donât understand how Derek of all people relates to the plight of Warden risen in undeath, having him be their âfaction leaderâ would be so funny tho. I bet Metzen would make that into a fun story if he was still alive.
I thought this was a thread about the Forsaken themed Quests in a future patch. But I feel like there is a whole subtext I am missing. It seems like there is some past argument I must have missed.
I guess the OP didnât say much, he just linked information without comment. The title seems curious⌠Is that what the subtext of this thread/discussion is? An argument about whether the Forsaken control Tirisfal, and if so, when?
In my opinion, it is difficult to say.
In Shadows Rising, the Forsaken clearly have some Bastions of power in Lordaeron. Calia and Voss came to Orgrimmar via the scenic route to avoid any Alliance entanglements. But it appears they were in Lordaeron until summoned.
I think it is safe to say they have some holdings. But I wouldnât be surprised if the Alliance held on to some of the lands they conquered, as well.
If Lordaeron became a split/contested zone, that would scream more Alliance bias - as usual. They already won all the Warfronts Blizzard ever introduced.
If they were honest, they would rename the franchise : World of âShower the Alliance with narrative control and all the gifts while we make the Horde villains and give their stuff to the Allianceâ craft
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Heâs trying to use that as a point to prove himself right about some dumb internet argument heâs been having, hence the title being a quote from other posters. Couldâve just made the thread announcing the quest like I did, but he had to make it about himself.
I think itâs pretty obvious theyâve still had some control over Tirisfal since thatâs where the undead Night Elves met whenever they couldâve met anywhere else, and he himself uses Shadows Rising to try and prove his point because they went to Orgrimmar. But heâs been screaming about âNO MY HEADCANON IS RIGHT YOUâRE ALL LIARSâ any time someone refutes him.
And now because Iâve been pointing out his incredibly dumb logic he and his Story Forum Discord friends are going around telling people that Iâm a liar whoâs trolling people, whenever itâs really obvious that Dreadmoore is the one whoâs trolling. He keeps trying to argue with people about incredibly wrong takes instead of just talking about the lore from a neutral standpoint.
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Again, I guess I missed the whole background of why this thread even came to be⌠but I was thinking about the Undead Night Elves, with Calia and Derek, and trying to remember where that was. I thought it was somewhere in Tirisfal/Lordaeron⌠but couldnât recall. So I didnt want to mention it if I wasnt sure.
But yeah that was at the end of BfA. The Forsaken certainly had some holdings in the Eastern Kingdoms at the end of BfA and the beginning of Shadows Rising.
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Shadows Rising specifically states that the Forsaken are rotting in Orgrimmarâs heat because they have no home.
Yeah they met at the Calston Estate. He started arguing with people about this in the âWhy are Night elf Fans so Angryâ thread.
I mean, alot of them are in Org. Alot were specifically evacuated to Orgrimmar from the Undercity and nearby areas. One could logically assume the denizens of Undercity had no where to go but the portal to Org.
That doesnât mean they abandoned all the land entirely. Or that all of the Forsaken are in Orgrimmar.
As Eve reminded me, at the end of BfA, Calia has a small base on Lordaeron with Undead Night Elves, Derek, and her Forsaken. Voss supports Calia. And they came to Orgrimmar from Lordaeron in Shadows Rising.
I cant say how much they hold and how much the Alliance kept. Blizz might split the baby and have a UC themed BG in the middle. But I think it is safe to say the Forsaken had some holdings in Tirisfal/Lordaeron prior to Shadows Rising. Since that is where Calia and Voss came from when summoned to Org.
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The words of a forsaken who can freely leave whenever he wants and has a safe home waiting for him in Tirisfal:
https://i.imgur.com/i8zKRlL.jpg
Isnât that hyperbolic? There are millions of players and only hundreds are complaining, maybe thousands globally. We often overestimate what other people think and presume everyone agrees. I donât think most players even know and those that do only a third care passionately one way or another.
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Missed this.
Page number, please?
The Alliance is breathing down their necks even on the high seas. Getting to and fro isnât easy, even for Horde leaders and diplomats. Not that that is new⌠we can recall how the Forsaken Ambassadors never returned, and how the Alliance treated Talanji.
I guess the way I see it, the Alliance stormed Lordaeron but didnât hold it all, and might have withdrawn from alot of territory. The Forsaken were evacuated from the areas they could. But there were parts of Lordaeron that have been carrying on in a disorganized way, as the Alliance is more in containment mode than invasion mode - for now.
I guess I see this âmusteringâ as a combination of it all. It sounds like exiles and refugees returning en force, combined with the remaining denizens organizing and rallying in a noticable way, when they might have just been existing in a common way since the war.
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Knowing that the Forsaken couldnât remain in [Orgrimmar] forever, Voss and Calia sought a new home for their people, while believing that the ruins of Lordaeron could one day be reclaimed and their homes there restored.
Even Wowpedia is saying they donât own Lordaeron. And itâs run by folks who live by âuh akshualiesâ
The Alliance held it during the Fourth War and the Horde vacated it since the city and the surrounding area were blighted to hell and back. The area was ceded in good faith similar to Azshara region to the Horde for the undead to live there. Itâs why Turalyon was upset. He felt the Alliance should held the capital, but they lacked the manpower and were spread too thin. They opted for this option because Anduin ever the holy priest saw good in the Forsaken and thanks to the efforts of Calia Menethil, Alonsus Faol, and Lillian Voss the Forsaken are going through a process of restructuring and ideally revitalize the fallen kingdom and ideally move them away from the era and ideals of Sylvanas Windrunner.
Yes, as I have acknowledged, there are tons of refugees that left Tirisfal during the evacuation and they are in Org. They count to Voss - but they are not the whole of their people. Especially since they would have been the ones in and around Undercity, their home is gone.
That does not mean all Forsaken.
And I think you and I differ⌠but for different reasons.
Remember, that site is fan edited. And many in the fanbase have a vested interest in pretending the Forsaken have no claim to Lordaeron.
I submit the Forsaken currently have holdings and never gave up the claim. While it would fit a different narrative to pretend they have no holdings and are all gone - a narrative some fans want to pretend is canon as they edit fan websites.
I have the audio book on another phone at home. I left for the day. But it is in the early parts of that book.
Voss and Calia were late because they came from Lordaeron and had to take the long way to avoid the Alliance.
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Yeah, but your claim is built on the idea that Calia and Voss must have only come from Lordaeron. They could not possibly have come from any place else. They could not have been in Lordaeron to survey the scenario.
We know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the Forsaken are not currently living in Tirisfal. 8.3 says it. Shadows Rising says it. 9.2 says it. 9.2.5 says they are going home to retake their land, because right now theyâre rotting in Orgrimmarâs heat.
Reiterating:
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