To be fairer, all those ships that crashed were being piloted by Naaru.
I was sad when O’ros died, as I always thought he was a nice Naaru because of the Children’s Week quests. But maybe Rakeesh did us a favor in killing him before the Vindicaar was launched.
Oh, the humans have their own bag of issues. You are not wrong there. However, I will say that “Human Potential” never had much relevance until this expansion.
On the other hand, I love the Elves of the Horde. Those snooty, pompous dicks; nurturing an abomination culture that should have been wiped out. The Elves of the Horde are deliberately written as very flawed. Selfish, apathetic, pretentious. They embody the classic Elven flaws of Hubris and Pride; and suffered the consequences of those flaws many times over.
Actually, they don’t.
The Blood elven theme since their introduction into WoW has been about a resurgence, reclaiming a proud legacy and becoming relevant in the world again after a massive tragedy. A similar vein has come forth for the nightborne. Whereas the Night elves has suffered the cliche Tolkien theme wielded by simpletons of losing everything and becoming reliant “younger” races for survival.
I mean, the Tolkein theme could not have been more “Human Potential” if you tried. I always found it extremely arbitrary that Humanity just sort of “won” the world, because every other race just sort of let themselves die out? As for the BEs … they were already brought to their lowest point; so the only way to go is up now. The NBs also were brought to an extremely low point, so up they go. If things hold to that rule, one would assume Blizz would allow the NEs to follow that same trend. They’ve been brought to their lowest point, up they go right?
Hmm … I think the defining sign on which route Blizz will allow for them is whether they have Tyrande follow her Liadrin Parallels … or her Kael Parallels. I … lets just say I’m really hoping for the prior and really hate the latter.
The elves in LOTR didn’t “die out,” they left Middle Earth for the Undying Lands to live with the Valinor. They are bound to the planet, whereas Humanity has the gift of death which frees them from the world’s fate. Fantasy writers moved to dying elves due to copyright claims and “human potential” because pandering towards human ethnocentrism is easy as long as you forget that its basically a fantasy take of “mighty whitey.”
There’s this thing called “subverting expectations.” Its kind of been a theme of this last expansion. You understand that people have an inherent mistrust of Blizzard currently?
I am aware of that, however the result was the same.
They get out of the way to make room for the Age of Humanity. They ceased to be a relevant force within the parts of the setting that were relevant. For all functional purposes, them wandering off to a “the undying lands” is the equivalent of them going to “heaven”.
As for the subverting expectations thing … we’ll see.
Ah, metaphors. That thing that Tolkien looked down on and considered a tool for simpletons and hacks.
I’ve never worshiped at the feet of Tolkien. I enjoy his work for what it is, but I’d hardly say its flawless. I am also a fairly staunch functionalist when it comes to writing. The Elves getting off-screened to a paradise built for only them, by a prime deity that loved to play favorites … removed the Elves as a factor within the relevant world of the setting. They have no more value to “Middle Earth” than the Dwarves who just allow themselves to go extinct.
Granted it doesn’t matter when it comes the world of Tolkien, since the setting is supposed to have been concluded. There aren’t supposed to be new stories, its an entirely self contained construct.
Nether have I. He is the king of world-building, but his story is a bit lacking compared to Asimov, Herbert, and Clarke.
In Tolkien, though, it’s not any sort of triumph for humanity or the world that this happens. It’s just one more example of how everything is becoming less and less grand and glorious over time. The world used to have magnificence and now it just has … mundanity.
Also this. And both humans and elves envy each other’s situations, sooner or later.
I kinda do worship at the feet of Tolkien, but I acknowledge that he’s not to everyone’s taste.
Shaka, when the walls fell. 
Yeah…JUST Teldrassil. Not like…an ancestral home or anything…with thousands and thousands of years worth of history and meaning to its people. Not like it only further reinforces the idea that their once immortal and grand race is suffocating to death in the wake of recent conflicts. Not like their allies decided the nelves were on their own in repaying the tragedy, either. Surely it can’t feel like their goddess – who they have been devoted to longer than any other race except the Draenei and Trolls have been alive --has (dare I say it) forsaken them?? Nah…no way dude.
Pah! It was barely even a tree, honestly. F*ck em.
Note, Teldrassil was like 15 years old or so. It was created by Staghelm, a half mad druid who had to betray Malf to even get the thing grown.
Yea. You’re right, I’m thinking of the other one. Alright, I’m the town dunce today. Rain on the disgrace people.
As a side note, reading this thread … the issue seems to be that what is most important to both races was robbed from both races. The NEs past was robbed from them, as they are a people that culturally do focus on returning to and maintaining a status quo. The Forsaken’s future was robbed from them, as they are a people who largely don’t have much of a status quo to return to; so their future is just so … so much more important for them. Its going to take quite a bit of work to repair the damage to the prior’s past, and the latters future.
I don’t think we’ve really seen the Forsaken focusing on the future. Or… really… anything, for that matter.
Their future has been the major driving point of the Forsaken narrative for a long time, actually. Ever since Cataclysm. We’ve only really gotten to experience it through Sylvanas but that concern over how they can continue their species (because losing population means they WILL get exterminated by enemies eventually, making reproduction less about legacy for future generations and more about preserving themselves now) and what they must become has been at the forefront of their lore ever since Arthas died and the Forsaken collectively went “What now?”
Cataclysm their story was mostly about their place in the Horde and how they can expand. Garrosh treating them as fodder and Sylvanas sacrificing some of their limited Valk’yr to save herself were both wake up calls that the Forsaken need to do something to progress as a people.
In Stormheim that was also Sylvanas’ stated goal. To find a way to keep the Forsaken as a people going strong.
Unfortunately we both know that Blizzard only takes toys out of their toybox to play with them once in a while unless they are some variety of human, elf, or orc so the Forsaken beyond Sylvanas haven’t had much of a chance to explore this theme of their race.
I don’t agree. All those things have been Sylvanas’ focus. But very few, if any, Forsaken themselves ever talked about continuing the Forsaken. Even less so when Sylvanas sacrificed Val’kyr for herself. No Forsaken has ever commented on that any time it has happened.
That is because Forsaken aside from Sylvanas almost never get a voice for themselves. She was, however, their racial leader and primary mouth piece in the story. Functionally the same as Tyrande for the night elves or Vol’jin for the Darkspear.
If they are pursing something they perceive as for the betterment of their people it is probably a shared sentiment by said people. At least unless we’re told it isn’t.
The Forsaken always came off as a very goal driven society to me. At first in their single minded pursuit of vengeance and now with the goal of preserving themselves so they don’t meet a second violent end. They seek innovation through their chemistry and engineering and are constantly trying to find new and unique ways to kill people trying to encroach on their lawns.
I do not consider Tyrande the mouth piece for the Night Elves, nor Vol’jin for the Darkspear. If that was Blizzard’s intentions it was a lazy writing device, but not an actual conveyor for lore.
The Forsaken did come off as goal driven society, yes. Sylvanas’ goals. But that didn’t give the Forsaken any drive beyond her. In Classic the Forsaken were aimlessly focusing on their revenge on Arthas. In Cataclysm / after Edge of Night the Forsaken were just tools for Sylvanas to use. In Stormheim the Forsaken don’t even know why Sylvanas was there, nor even comment on anything she did there after. And at Darkshore the Forsaken are just there because Sylvanas put them there, not because they have any particular interest in being there themselves.
The Forsaken have been written as nearly mindless as the zombies of other media they were supposed to be subversion of. Sylvanas said they should care about Lordaeron, so they were all about that. Then Sylvanas said they shouldn’t care about Lordaeron any more, so they stopped. More Forsaken in-game have clung onto the loss of Sylvanas abandoning them than they have of Lordaeron, and once again not a single Forsaken has ever spoken about the future nor Sylvanas taking the Val’kyr with her.
The Forsaken innovated their chemistry because Sylvanas told them to, not for any particular reason of their own. And as the vision showed in Edge of Night the Forsaken wouldn’t even preserve themselves without Sylvanas telling them to.
Which is my point. We’ve never seen the Forsaken focus on anything on their own until the Desolate Council, and that wasn’t about the future, but going back to their old lives and families again, their past.